Do you REALLY KNOW why?

[TheProcess]

Jesus Christ (whether you believe He was "just some guy" or the actual Son of God) loved man kind so passionately that He gave up His very life so that all persons might have eternal life in Heaven.

Unless you believe in "limited atonement", in which case Jesus only died for some people. You Christians can't agree what the Bible teaches.

Whether you believe that Christ is "God" or not should not matter - He did what He did with your eternal soul in mind. This deserves respect, even if you believe His efforts were "misplaced."

Jesus wasn't "Christ". He simply wasn't qualified. And your claim that he deserves "respect" rather depends on the gospels being accurate, which non-Christians don't really have a commitment to. And personally, I don't find the Jesus of the gospels to be a nice character.

[SoulGrind]

YOUCH! You seem very miinformed

Christianity is not something that Jesus wanted for everyone...

How do you explain this then:

"...Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen"

[Matthew 28:16-20 - KJV]

...find out WHY Jesus spoke in parables...

The disciples asked this same question of Jesus.

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"

[Matthew 13:10 - KJV]

"He (Jesus) answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

[Matthew 13:11 - KJV]

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

[Matthew 13:13 - KJV]

Jesus is not withholding the truth from some; He isn

Edited October 21, 2006 by SoulGrind

[Ovedya]

Jesus wasn't "Christ". He simply wasn't qualified.

How was Jesus not qualified to be the Christ. I would love to hear this...especially from an unbeliever.

...And personally, I don't find the Jesus of the gospels to be a nice character.

Really? How so?

[SoulGrind]

Unless you believe in "limited atonement", in which case Jesus only died for some people. You Christians can't agree what the Bible teaches.

Just about EVERY Christian I know can quote this verse. It's the foundation that Christianity stands upon.

"...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

[John 3:16-18 - KJV]

We are taught in these three passages of scripture that Christ died for ALL persons so that ALL persons may have eternal life.

However, for those persons who CHOOSE not to believe (such as yourself), they too shall have eternal life - just not in Heaven with God.

Where is the ambiguity in that?

Jesus wasn't "Christ". He simply wasn't qualified.

Oh? And I suppose that out of all mankind, down through the ages, you are the chosen one to say what or what does not constitute the qualifications for the messiah? I THINK NOT!

And your claim that he deserves "respect" rather depends on the gospels being accurate,

Quite provable through archaeology, historical evidence, medical science, mathematics, astronomy, biology, zoology, anthropology (with relevance to culture, not evolution). The list goes on...

which non-Christians don't really have a commitment to.

You are oh so very CORRECT in this statement.

And personally, I don't find the Jesus of the gospels to be a nice character.

Hmmm... So you think someone who heals the sick, teaches love and compassion for one another, and gives hope to a hopeless world is a bad person?

Sheesh - I'd hate to see what you think to be a good person!

[TheProcess]

Just about EVERY Christian I know can quote this verse. It's the foundation that Christianity stands upon.

"...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

[John 3:16-18 - KJV]

We are taught in these three passages of scripture that Christ died for ALL persons so that ALL persons may have eternal life.

Well there are plenty of Christians who don't agree with you.

Oh? And I suppose that out of all mankind, down through the ages, you are the chosen one to say what or what does not constitute the qualifications for the messiah? I THINK NOT!

Well firstly, you have to be anointed, because that is what the word is about. And Jesus wasn't anointed. You can always try and say that he was anointed by God, but (1) You have no evidence for that (2) Anyone can claim it, it's meaningless, and (3) being anointed by God isn't the criteria.

And your claim that he deserves "respect" rather depends on the gospels being accurate,

Quite provable through archaeology, historical evidence, medical science, mathematics, astronomy, biology, zoology, anthropology (with relevance to culture, not evolution). The list goes on...

No, you can't prove that the gospels are accurate. There may be evidence to support some of the information in the gospels, but that doesn't show that they are always or generally accurate as a historical record.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matthew 27:52-53 KJV)

So zombies came out of the graves and appeared to many people. Really? What evidence do you have for this then? And I would love to know what happened to all those zombies?

[SoulGrind]

Well there are plenty of Christians who don't agree with you.

Anyone who does not believe (have faith in) in Christ is therefore not a CHRISTian.

Well firstly, you have to be anointed, because that is what the word is about. And Jesus wasn't anointed. You can always try and say that he was anointed by God, but (1) You have no evidence for that (2) Anyone can claim it, it's meaningless, and (3) being anointed by God isn't the criteria.

First you say you have to be anointed, but then you say being anointed by God is not the criteria. So who (do you think) does the anointing, oh mage of the anointer's cup?

No, you can't prove that the gospels are accurate. There may be evidence to support some of the information in the gospels, but that doesn't show that they are always or generally accurate as a historical record.

Ah - I see clearly now. All that archaeological evidence that proves the existance towns, cultures, people, times, places - it's all made up and false. Shame on those pesky archaeologists for trying to trick us with nonsense.

And oh - those historians - they keep trying to tell us what happened - like they know! They weren't there.

And what do we know about astronomy - we can't even put a man on mars (yet) - let alone tell anything about stars (such as the one that the wise men followed and the shepherds saw).

And those Doctors - what do they know! All those cures, and medicines, and evidence that back up Biblical accounts (example of circumcizing babies on the 8th with relevance to Vitamin K). Must have been coincidence, or the doctors are in all a part of this Christian drama!

My cup of sarcasm drippeth over!

So zombies came out of the graves and appeared to many people. Really? What evidence do you have for this then? And I would love to know what happened to all those zombies?

Back to a secular, non-Christian account - Josephus wrote of the risen Christ... As for the other "zombies" - well, if one person (Christ) was written about by a secular source, I guess the others are within the realm of possibility.

If you're trying to change my point of view, or what I "know" from both science and scripture, you're doing a terrible job at it.

Edited October 21, 2006 by SoulGrind

[TheProcess]

Anyone who does not believe (have faith in) in Christ is therefore not a CHRISTian.

So you are saying that those who believe in limited atonement aren't real Christians? They may feel the same about you I guess.

[TheProcess]

First you say you have to be anointed, but then you say being anointed by God is not the criteria. So who (do you think) does the anointing, oh mage of the anointer's cup?

The term is about those anointed with oil as a king or priest. (Yes, they may supposedly be anointed by God, but they also hold a recognized position and have been ceremonially anointed). It never happened to Jesus.

If you want to make up a claim that Jesus was anointed by the Holy Spirit or whatever, well I could claim this about myself, and so could anyone else.

Edited October 21, 2006 by TheProcess

[eric]

First you say you have to be anointed, but then you say being anointed by God is not the criteria. So who (do you think) does the anointing, oh mage of the anointer's cup?

The term is about those anointed with oil as a king or priest. (Yes, they may supposedly be anointed by God, but they also hold a recognized position and have been ceremonially anointed). It never happened to Jesus.

If you want to make up a claim that Jesus was anointed by the Holy Spirit or whatever, well I could claim this about myself, and so could anyone else.

Erum.excuse me, process. Luke.4:18. The spirit of the Lordis upon Me and has annoined Me to bring good news to the poor (a). I won't complete the whole passagr, but you see Jesus was annointed by the holy spirit.

[TheProcess]

Ah - I see clearly now. All that archaeological evidence that proves the existance towns, cultures, people, times, places - it's all made up and false. Shame on those pesky archaeologists for trying to trick us with nonsense.

Did you read what I said?

The fact that the gospels mention real towns, or real people, doesn't show that they are always or generally accurate. There is nothing impressive about getting certain facts correct.

And look at the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke -- the stories aren't even consistent with each other. Christian apologists can try and make up "harmonizations" of course, but if you aren't a conservative Christian you will probably notice that they are blatantly inconsistent. Why? Well presumably because Matthew and Luke simply made up the stories because they thought that Bethlehem is where the Messiah should be born.

The Two Births of Jesus in Bethlehem

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