Guest Ferral Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 My question is not answered yet, it somehow degenerated into nonsense about Earth. I'll ask again. How do you, atheists, expect us to show you God when you cannot even see your own hand in front of your face when the light is suddenly cut off? Well if you think about it. If Einstein were correct on his theory of relativity Than all speed would be relative to another speed. If the big bang were also true, as well as newtons laws. Than everything in the universe is moving at a ridiculously high speed since it is suggested that the universe was created within a trillionth of a second. If there are galaxies that we cannot see because the light hasn't reached us, and we assume that the above theories are correct, than the big bang happened faster than the speed of light. I'll just stop there More questions? Good, that's how knowledge is gained. Science is where anyone asks a question, get some answers through painstaking investigation and appropriately change them over time. Newton's laws used to be dominant, but now we have laws for matter at the atomic levels, and who would have thought of quantam physics even a hundred years ago? Why does it matter that there's more and more science? If God created the universe, why not add level upon level? By the way, you are moving very fast regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer of dreams Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 314 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/08/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 The external effects only the external, and the internal effects only the internal. God is in an abode, yet he emanates everywhere. He is not in this room, yet he is. He effects the internal and the external, We are external. Our world is external. We were the mother and father of sin into the external. The father may create an infinite number of limited worlds , and a finite number of infinite worlds, or any combinations thereof. The limited world of hell came talked to the external world of man, deceived man and caused him to bring forth sin into the external world. He brought it forth because of his ignorance. His hand was not forced. It could not be forced by the Devil. Giving birth to sin is something we can only do by choice. If the Devil forced us than sin would be the son of the devil into the external, this is against Gods' divine rules. I know this is confusing. I am sorry runner I have a tough time speaking my faith. Well it's like this. The external is not how we gain knowledge about God. This comes directly from God into the internal. It is something we just know. Science asks alot of questions, but their answers are limited to man. Science cannot do alot of things. God can. You are correct when you say our knowledge is limited. I cannot give you what I know within myself. you have to find it. I can only give you external things, "keys" but I can't tell you where they go or what. It is internal, incomprehensible to the external (our world, nature the universe etc.) But internal it is easy. When you know something so true, and brilliant that it is hard to convey without sounding like a mush mouth two things will happen. You will know what I am talking about, and you will have found the trancendental infinite knowledge that is God. Impossible to talk about, yet easy to understand. I wish i could be more clear on this I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_spoz Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/04/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2006 Ok so its the old "their ignorant because the don't believe what I do" type comment fellow christians I cant prove/disprove god or science but this much I do know if you take an arogant stance like instead of the peaceful loving one of christ you will not teach people the truth and light of god rather you will just taint peoples perception of what a christian is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Ok so its the old "their ignorant because the don't believe what I do" type comment fellow christians I cant prove/disprove god or science but this much I do know if you take an arogant stance like instead of the peaceful loving one of christ you will not teach people the truth and light of god rather you will just taint peoples perception of what a christian is. Something I'm trying to learn, Spoz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge S Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1963 Share Posted November 4, 2006 (edited) The Bible is not explicit about anything scientific... if the Bible really were inspired by the creator of the universe it would offer a lot more scientific insight. It just doesn't. ... the more I learned about both the Bible and science, the more they drifted apart. They just don't click. And they should. They're in agreement but some fail to see it. It all depends on your understanding and expectations about the Bible and Science. You're a particular case where the evidence has caused you to drift away from God's Purpose with no solid reason. One of the things I appreciate about God is His didactic method. He does not just impose His Authority as a dictator but offers Himself as a choice based on what He has done, does and will do. He usually tells us 'come and see what I have done, and believe that I Am Who I Say I Am.' Jesus followed the same method during His earthly Ministry. Ask yourself why should God speak in terms of quantum physics to wandering tribesmen nearly 4 thousand years ago. And be careful to notice that at the time God revealed the Pentateuch to Moses He had just delivered them from the Egyptians with 'signs and wonders.' He also had a awesome physical pressence over Mt Sinai for all to see. When the Bible tells us that Creation declares the Glory of God is because we are humbled by what the Creation hints about the Creator. Contrary to what you believe, our immediate knowledge of the physical world does not erase God, for He remains the ultimate originator and sustainer of His Creation. Matter, laws and mechanisms did not start to exist when we discovered them: God made them since the beginning. The Bible reveals ultimate truth that hasn't been disproven philosophically, scientifically or historically. On the other hand, assuming that Science holds the ultimate answers regarding everything there is to know is the most unscientific of positions. Edited November 4, 2006 by Jorge S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer of dreams Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 314 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/08/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 (edited) Ok so its the old "their ignorant because the don't believe what I do" type comment fellow christians I cant prove/disprove god or science but this much I do know if you take an arogant stance like instead of the peaceful loving one of christ you will not teach people the truth and light of god rather you will just taint peoples perception of what a christian is. Why did you think it appropriate to attack in such a way? I never said one was ignorant. I said no ones beliefs are not superior only different. It's not that I can't prove God, I can. Would you like me to prove you exist? I know you exist the same way I know God exists. I don't need to prove anything on mans terms. I have actually attained some of my beliefs through Hinduism. I never read Plato Edited November 4, 2006 by Observer of dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2006 Ask yourself why should God speak in terms of quantum physics to wandering tribesmen nearly 4 thousand years ago. But couldn't God, for example, give a clear statement that the Earth is in orbit around the Sun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge S Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1963 Share Posted November 4, 2006 But couldn't God, for example, give a clear statement that the Earth is in orbit around the Sun? Well, He could have certainly done it but chose not to. I can think of two reasons. One is that it was irrelevant at those times due to the lack of scientific and technologic development. God revealed what was immediatly and eternally significant for mankind to know regardless of the prevailing and future levels of cultural and technologic advance. The second reason is that He created Man to be His steward over our planet. Carrying out His mandate to 'subdue' the earth surely involved learning how nature worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge S Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1963 Share Posted November 4, 2006 ...Or better yet, an even remotely accurate account of the creation of Earth and life in Genesis. You're a particular case where the evidence has caused you to drift away from God's Purpose with no solid reason. Uh, I have a very solid reason for disbelieving. There is loads of evidence against the accounts of the Bible. Genesis is a good example of where it is just crazy. Sure, you can take it all figuratively, but even then it's shaky. And I'm not sure I would entrust my way of life to a book whose means can be so loosely interpreted, either literally or symbollically. It's so ambiguous. So most people just interpret it in the way they feel most comfortable. No thanks; I think truth should be unambiguous. Just for the record: I consider Genesis to be literal and historic. If you mean that Big Bang, Abiogenesis and Evolution make for a better worldview I will then have to observe that your 'ambiguity detector' desperately requires some gross calibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted November 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Science, The study of Gods Creation, Take GOd out of the Creation and you fall away from truth. to understand the world, the way it works can come from observation, but to understand how we where created only comes from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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