Proof there is, or is not a spirit?

[Joshua-777]

Ok, I see that it is ruwach (spirit)

H7307

רוּח

rûach

roo'-akh

From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

The word in greek is

G4151

πνεῦμα

pneuma

pnyoo'-mah

From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ

[None]

Can anyone provide evidence there is, or is not a spirit.

That depends on what you believe the spirit really is. I believe you have to understand the human brain before even trying to understand the spirit or the soul. One cannot come before the other, imo.

Scientific testing has been done on the brain, as most people are aware, which has differentiated thought processes between the right and left hemispheres. This means that all humans have two seperately thinking "beings" in our heads, so to speak.

From here:

Patients sometimes complain that their left hand behaves in a "foreign" or "alien" manner, and they often express surprise at apparently purposeful left-hand actions (Bogen, 1993).

After separation of the two hemispheres or "Chronic disconnection":

In contrast to social ordinariness, lateralized testing in which the stimuli and/or responses are restricted to one hemisphere reveals a dramatic lack of communication between the two disconnected hemispheres, each of which appears to have its own perceptual, learning and memory systems. Thus, a typical right-handed commissurotomy patient with left hemisphere (LH) speech cannot name stimuli in the left sensory field, whether the left visual hemifield (LVF) or the left hand (Lh), and such a patient cannot make reliable same-different judgments about stimuli in opposite sensory fields, usually the two visual hemifields or the two hands.

As far as animal testing went:

The hemispheric specialization typical of human subjects results in phenomena not seen in split-brain animals. A typical example is the inability of right-handers to name or describe an object in the left hand, even when it is being appropriately manipulated. (4) Compensatory phenomena. Split brain subjects progressively acquire a variety of strategies for circumventing their interhemispheric transfer deficits. A common example is for the patient to speak out loud the name of an object palpated in the right hand; because the right hemisphere can recognize many individual words, the object can then be retrieved with the left hand.

"Interhemispheric transfer"

With time, patients acquire a variety of extracallosal transfer mechanisms. These include cross-cueing (Bogen, 1990), ipsilateral sensory/motor projections, especially on the left side, and a number of routes for subcallosal communication. Transfer of high level semantic information can occur (Cronin-Golomb, 1986'; Myers and Sperry, 19851); however, its extent is as yet uncertain...

"Consciousness"

Long-term observations showed that each disconnected hemisphere possesses not only a separate sensory-motor interface with the environment, its own perceptual, mnestic, cognitive and linguistic repertoires, but also a distinct personality, as well as characteristic preferences and dislikes (D.W. Zaidel, 1994). Thus, the two hemispheres have similar, but not identical, concepts of self, past and future, family, social culture and history (Sperry, Zaidel and Zaidel, 19793). After some testing experience with the patients, examiners spontaneously refer to the two hemispheres as if they were distinct people, e.g., "the LH was upset at the RH responses today". While such references may be regarded as shorthand for patterns of behavior with specific lateralized stimuli and responses, they nonetheless express a strong phenomenological sense of two coexisting streams of consciousness. Both hemispheres can probably be simultaneously and independently conscious; both can simultaneously possess conflicting wills so that the split-brain can exhibit two distinct, and possibly incompatible, loci of moral responsibility (Iacoboni et al., 1996; but see MacKay and MacKay, 1982 1).

The question then arises why the normal person with an intact brain experiences consciousness as unified rather than dual. Sperry reasoned that normal consciousness is a higher emergent entity that transcends the separate awareness in the connected left and right hemispheres, supersedes them in controlling thought and action, and integrates their activity. Alternatively, Bogen (1990) and many of us argue that normal consciousness is also dual, with partially separate parallel processing in the two hemispheres which sometimes does result in subjective feelings of conflict. Moreover, some normal subjects behave like split-brain patients during lateralized tests, thus demonstrating spontaneous or dynamic functional disconnection (Landis, Iacoboni).

It is noteworthy that the two chronically disconnected hemispheres generally do not engage in overt conflict. This is partly explained by characteristic RH passivity, LH dominance, and a unified system of motor control, as well as shared subcortical structures as discussed under "interhemispheric transfer" above. Intermanual conflict has usually been observed in the acute stage following surgical disconnection and in partial disconnection due to natural lesions, as in cases of the alien hand syndrome. However, even in the chronic stage we often encounter LH disbelief of intentional RH output.

Could the "higher emergent entity" possibly be our spirit?

[Retrobyter]

ok, ok , everyone seems confused, Let me start.

I am convinced I have a spirit, Growing up, I have always been spiritual, but had no grounds to what I was following, I found various forms of spiritualism, Wicca, Witchcraft, Demonism, which, empowered my spirit, .. to what I thought was growing in spirit, but tragicly ended in bondage, and pain. The spiritual side which I desired to know, turned into the side that I wish I never knew, I was saved by the grace of the Lord, He called me one night, I got in a fight with him shouting question after question, well the next day I went to church, and the preacher mentioned every question I asked in order, I was convicted, I gave my life to Jesus March 2003, and have not been the same since, Jesus was my spiritual awakening, I realized that everything I was following was my visible spiritual destruction, and Jesus Christ is freedom from that bondage? WHy, because I deserved it? No not at all, by his grace, Why? because he loves me, he loves me enough to give his life for me, so that I wouldn't die, he payed the price for my sins. Now as far as supernatural things. Yes I have seen alot and been through alot, I know first handedly, we are all born with a spirit.

Shabbat shalom, josh-13.

You're making this harder than it needs to be. The words translated to "spirit" in the Old Testament (the Tanakh) and in the New Testament (the B'rit Chadashah) are, respectively, "ruach" and "pneuma." Both words originally meant "the wind" or "the breath" by extension. ONLY BY ANALOGY do they mean "the immaterial part." Do you have a "spirit?" Well, do you have a "breath?" Of course you do or you'd be dead! The words translated to "soul" in the Bible are "nefesh" and "psuchee." (In transliterating from Greek, I use PC Study Bible's method of using "e" for "epsilon," "ee" for "eta," "o" for "omicron," and "oo" for "omega.") Both of these words mean "one who breathes" or "one who is animated," i.e., a combination of a body ("geviyah" or "sooma") and the breath. Is there a "spirit?" Well, is there a "breath?" Now, look at this information in light of Genesis 2:7:

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

He did not ACQUIRE a "soul"; he BECAME a "soul." In this respect, even animals have "spirits" ("breaths") and are "souls" ("breathers"). This is ESSENTIAL to a proper understanding of these terms when you come across them in Scripture.

Hope this helps.

Retrobyter

[theprocessofbelief]

i believe there is no physical entity that is our spirit, but instead it is our inermost thoughts and ideas. our brain develops incredibly quickly all our lives to the point where we all have incredible personalities that are shaped by our experiences and our choices. i find this idea much more thrilling than the idea that we have a set spirit somewhere in our physical selves waiting to be set free because it means we are always open to development through our own choice. we choose the experiences we want to have and the things we let into our lives. i dont believe our personalties are predestined, but shaped nourished, threatened and repaired until we are our own individual independent selves, the person we want to be.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, josh-13.

For biblical evidence that both a human being and an animal have a "spirit," i.e. a "breath" (Hebrew ruach), see Ecclesiates 3:21:

Eccl 3:21

21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

KJV

(This verse, by the way, is talking about when men and animals die, i.e. when they "breathe" their last "breath." Animals are generally face down in the dirt while human beings are most often on their backs.)

For biblical evidence that both a human being and an animal have a "soul" (or rather ARE a "soul", Hebrew nephesh), see Genesis 1:30 and 2:7:

Gen 1:30

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

KJV

Gen 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

KJV

In both of these verses, the word highlighted is the Hebrew word nephesh.

I really believe that most of us have things really kookie! Instead of giving simple Hebrew (and Greek) words multiple meanings (because that's what we English-speaking peoples have done to the English language), we should look for a SINGLE meaning that fits multiple verses in the Bible and adjust our thinking accordingly. I believe that we have certain expectations and try to fit what we learn from Hebrew and Greek into our theological molds rather than form our theology from what we glean from the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. We are guilty of EISEGESIS (reading our thoughts and belief-systems INTO the Scriptures) instead of EXOGESIS (getting our thoughts and belief-systems FROM the Scriptures)!

Neither "soul" nor "spirit" is the divide between human beings and animals. What divides men from animals is the "image of God" in which our ancestor Adam was created.

Sometime, take a look at the Scriptures that contain the word "ruach" and those that contain the word "nephesh" and remember IN EVERY CASE the children of Isra'el used the SAME words! (One can do this with an Englishman's Concordance.) Ponder on the various verses and try to see how the same Hebrew word could apply to each verse. It will change how you look at "soul" and "spirit." You will also need to drop the adamant attitude and allow the Holy Spirit (Ruach haKodesh) to mold a more pliant you to HIS way of thinking.

Retrobyter

[sweetycakes]

This is probably an over simplified view of things, but I would say this:

Lay two people down, side by side.....(identical twins, if you like).

One alive, the other dead.

They both look the same. They both weigh the same.

Yet there is something 'missing' in the dead one.

The thing that is missing is the spirit, which has returned to God, who made it.

The spirit of life. The spirit IS life.

I think that there is a noticeable difference in a person with, or without a 'spirit'

[Eddie B]

Can anyone provide evidence there is, or is not a spirit.

Good ?

You did say small s (human spirit)not big S(Holy Spirit) so with my:

Body through my 5 sences that God gave me i can experence the world around me,

through my soul that God gave me i can experence self-realization(i think,i feel,i will)

and through my spirit that God gave me i can know their is a God

but not have spiritual life.

I know i have spiritual life when the Holy Spirit in my spirit through my soul and body gives evidence He(Jesus)lives in and through me.If you see Jesus in my life that to me is the evidence of God is a Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and truth.

[Sconzy]

Can anyone provide evidence there is, or is not a spirit.

But your signature says it all, how can you ask it?

[Joshua-777]

Can anyone provide evidence there is, or is not a spirit.

But your signature says it all, how can you ask it?

lol This topic was for non-believers, I know I have a spirit, and I know I am spiritualy dead without Jesus.

[Guest abe]

I do not know what you might mean by 'proof.' Do you mean 'evidence?' I can provide evidence, but certainly not proof, in the technical sense of the word. I would be quite hard-pressed to 'prove' my own existence.............

Good point, Let me change it to evidence,

It was not a limitation on God to demand faith from His children.He could logically have decided to every morning manifest himself in the sky for creation to know He exist.God is not proving anything and does not want his children proving anything.

Edited August 5, 2007 by abe