Guest pixy Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 (edited) Some other thoughts... "Proper training," in the sense of addressing mannersims and outward appearance is very much a cultural matter. It is very relative. We need to be careful about teaching others things that are not specifically in scripture. My discipler with Campus Crusade (the one I've mentioned before) went down to Chile for a summer-long missions trip. She told me that when she got there, she was having a bit of trouble finding folks to witness to at first, because almost everybody hung out in the bars; she was trying to be "good" and follow what she had always been taught: bars are bad. Then she prayed... And she went into one of the bars, sat down (and didn't drink) and started sharing about what God had been doing in her life lately. She led several people to the Lord that summer. The Bible does not say bars are bad... The Bible does not say baggy pants are bad... I was also thinking... Let's say a prostitute does come to church (wearing her "street clothes"). She gets saved, and then goes back out to the streets. I would say her fellow prostitutes would probably listen to her witnessing to them more than they would to me. I would even say that they would listen to her more in her "street clothes" than in "church clothes." I am a modest in my attire. My friends tease me and say I am too modest and will never find a man this way! In examining my heart though, I have to say that my motives in this are not pure. I do not dress modestly because I feel God telling me to; I do not dress modestly in an effort to not tempt others. I dress modestly because (despite all the healing God has already done in my life) I still struggle with some body image issues. I could have the same motives, but, on the flip-side of it, "act out" in just the opposite way and dress in a skimpy fashion. Not only would I be offended if an older, more "mature" woman in the church came up to me and told me to go change my clothes, I would be hurt that she chose not to get to the "heart of the matter." If it had been a few years ago, I would have thought that Christianity wasn't worth my time if my attire was really that important... more important that my heart and the hurt inside of it. God changes us from the inside out, and we need to make sure that we do the same when training up others in the Lord. Edited December 21, 2006 by pixy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terter Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 473 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2006 (edited) posted: "a prostitute should be loved and taken care of by the women of the church, to raise her up and train her up.... she will change the way she acts and dresses as the Holy Spirit builds her....." YES, why not let the Holy Spirit led them? Believe me the street people who come into the churches don't want to be put into religious boxes. It turns them off. I know a 55 year old motorcyclist who gave his heart to the Lord. The first thing the pastor said was for him to cut his hair, cover up his tatoos, wear a suit to church, etc. A few weeks later he said that he had searched through the Bible for those verses and couldn't find them. The pastor said well if you can't do what I say, you need to find another church. The same for the young people - we pray for the Lord to intervene in their lives, etc. then when they come to church, we LOVINGLY in CHRISTIAN LOVE? criticize them. They get turned off to religion...religious boxes...to churches because of the religious boxes. We've got people from one particular church that won't speak to Christians in the same faith because they go to a different church. Their church members have the same houses, cars, etc. This is what this kind of thinking leads to. Let's get real. That's just pride - that's not what Christianity is about. I'll get off my soapbox now. Edited December 21, 2006 by terter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily~Anne Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2006 Frankly, I think this whole thread is ridiculous. What if a prostitute walked into your church. What if the only clothes she had was a stained miniskirt and a tight shirt that showed everything she had? Would you turn your nose up at her, or would you get up and go to her, telling her that she is welcome in God's house no matter what clothes she wore on her back? What if a homeless man walked into your church wearing torn and dirty clothes, what if he smelled, what if his hair was dirty and messy? Would you turn him away because he wasn't "dressed to honor God"? My point here is that God loves each of us personally. He doesn't care what you look like, he only cares about the intentions of your heart. The way I see it is that each person in church is a blessing. Some people don't choose the right clothes, some people don't have a choice in their clothes...and that doesn't mean we have a right to sit back and judge them! If their hearts are true, and they are in church to be with Jesus, then I think it doesn't matter what theyre wearing. But hey, that's just me. I didn't realize this thread was about wether or not we should allow poor people or people dressed in a provocative manner into our church. That wasn't my impression. Of course we should welcome those who are lost sheep with open arms into our churches and I think 100% of all members at worthy will agree with that. And yes of course God loves each of us, but apparently God DOES care about how we dress because there are verses on how we should dress. He does not like women to wear men's clothing or vice versa, God prefers we dress modestly, etc. That is not to say that God loves us based on how we dress. Scripture supports that we love and not look down on those who are too poor to dress well, or have fallen to the ways of the world and dress like(or are) prostitues. Scripture ALSO supports that God does care how we who are spiritual dress. Which do you think is a better testimony to what God has done for you? To dress like a prostitue? Or to dress respectably and modestly? I was expecting a response such as this. You've obviously missed the mark. Did I say anything about wanting to dress like a prostitute?? My point is that we have no right to judge. God will take us whether or not we are dressed in an expensive chanel suit or tight jeans with holes in them. We should love just as Jesus loves us. And that is fully without conditions. An excellent post by kittylover from another thread: There is a verse that has been mentioned before about not causing fellows brothers or sisters in Christ to stumble... aka, not being a stumbling block... I think we have kind of gone into great detail about this, but you put a girl with a low neckline that shows what it shouldn't show, I know that can cause a guy to look... How do I know? It used to be fun to see guys staring... plain and simple... aka "I wonder if he likes me".... Definitly not saying that that is the same for all, but for goodness sakes, tell me where it says in the bible that is IS right? Instead of trying to say "The bible doesn't say you can't _____"... the bible ALSO doesn't say you can't drink and the bible doesn't say you can't drink... the bible gives guidelines.. for drinking? Not excessively and not to mention, the bible talks about being clear in thought... garunteed.. you drink? You won't be thinking clearly.. smoking? Same as drinking in the sense that our bodies are the temples of the Holy Ghost.. if you are saved... I think what is more important than "Does the bible say this is wrong?" is "Does doing this glorify God?"... Does wearing a low neck line in a shirt that stops over you belly button and a skirt that is so short that you can see the girls behind? What about a guy wearing a skin tight shirt that has a logo for say "Budweiser" on it? Try spiked hair with blue dye and peircings all over you body? Does the bible say anything SPECIFIC against these very specific things? no.. the bible does not say "Thou shalt not wear a shirt that says Budweiser", not.. but the bible DOES say to be an example of the believers and "whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all to the glory of God". The bible doesn't say "Girls, don't wear a low neck line and pants". the bible says "adorn yourselves in modest apparel" and the bible also says that a women's dress is not to pertain to that of a man's .... The bible doesn't say "Thou shalt not peirce they skin for a nose ring"... the bible says we are the temple of the Holy Ghost... There are enough things that the bible doesn't give a definite "thou shalt not", but the bible does give definite guidelines on how are supposed to live our lives, so instead of trying to justify something by "the bible doesn't say______ specifically", trying asking "Does this really bring glory to GOD?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exavier Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 13 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2006 Well, I'm a teenager, and I have to say that I agree with what's being said here, but I find the "too many hugs" ref. too much. You can never have enough hugs. Sure, if they were trying to grope someone...but they're not. They're in Church, and I have to come across all innocent, but in my part of the world, that's not done. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily~Anne Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2006 Some other thoughts... "Proper training," in the sense of addressing mannersims and outward appearance is very much a culteral matter. It is very relative. We need to be careful about teaching others things that are not specifically in scripture. The Bible does not say bars are bad... The Bible does not say baggy pants are bad... read what I quoted from kittlover in my post right before this one I was also thinking... Let's say a prostitute does come to church (wearing her "street clothes"). She gets saved, and then goes back out to the streets. I would say her fellow prostitutes would probably listen to her witnessing to them more than they would to me. I would even say that they would listen to her more in her "street clothes" than in "church clothes." Here is a paragraph from part of my testimony I shared in another thread: We do not have to dress punk to reach out to punks, and frankly, I wouldn't have shared my pain with her if she dressed as a punk too. Something about her "stuck out" to me because she was different! That is exactly WHY I veered towards her!! I needed and desired something "different" yet I did not have a clue what that different thing was until I met a fellow sister in Christ!! I knew, after a short time, that she had something I wanted!! It is not necessary to conform to the world to make an impact. In fact it seems we would actually make less of an impact by conforming to the world, as our testimony would not be as strong. Here is the link to the rest of the post: http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry675031 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be seperate, says the Lord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pixy Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Some other thoughts... "Proper training," in the sense of addressing mannersims and outward appearance is very much a culteral matter. It is very relative. We need to be careful about teaching others things that are not specifically in scripture. The Bible does not say bars are bad... The Bible does not say baggy pants are bad... read what I quoted from kittlover in my post right before this one I was also thinking... Let's say a prostitute does come to church (wearing her "street clothes"). She gets saved, and then goes back out to the streets. I would say her fellow prostitutes would probably listen to her witnessing to them more than they would to me. I would even say that they would listen to her more in her "street clothes" than in "church clothes." Here is a paragraph from part of my testimony I shared in another thread: We do not have to dress punk to reach out to punks, and frankly, I wouldn't have shared my pain with her if she dressed as a punk too. Something about her "stuck out" to me because she was different! That is exactly WHY I veered towards her!! I needed and desired something "different" yet I did not have a clue what that different thing was until I met a fellow sister in Christ!! I knew, after a short time, that she had something I wanted!! It is not necessary to conform to the world to make an impact. In fact it seems we would actually make less of an impact by conforming to the world, as our testimony would not be as strong. Here is the link to the rest of the post: http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry675031 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be seperate, says the Lord... I was not talking about kittylover (no offense kittylover), I was talking about the Bible. You have completely misunderstood what I have attempted to say here. I did not state an opinion either way, in fact, on what attire I personally think would be honouring to God. The point that I was trying to make is that training someone up in the Lord is not merely about telling them to dress or act a certain way. It is about encouraging them, leading by example and the Word, praying with them, and walking with them through life's trials. I would really hesitate to walk up to a teen girl and tell her she better come to church next sunday dressed differently so that she can honour God better. There a couple main things wrong with that: 1) It sends the wrong message about Christianity. Consistently trying to reinforce a set of rules on such matters can appear legalistic and can be a stumbling block. In fact, it is often what turns people off from Church and from God. 2) I have failed to relate to this young woman in a meaningful way that will help change her life, not just her appearance. What I personally would do would be to get to know this young lady, so that I could find out why she feels the needs to dress inappropriately (using Biblical standards, not man's, mind you!). I would then address the root issue with her. Through walking through whatever her thought process and feelings are on this, I would trust that God would convict her to change her manner of dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierra21 Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 160 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,000 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/30/1983 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I was also thinking... Let's say a prostitute does come to church (wearing her "street clothes"). She gets saved, and then goes back out to the streets. I would say her fellow prostitutes would probably listen to her witnessing to them more than they would to me. I would even say that they would listen to her more in her "street clothes" than in "church clothes." I dress modestly because (despite all the healing God has already done in my life) I still struggle with some body image issues. I could have the same motives, but, on the flip-side of it, "act out" in just the opposite way and dress in a skimpy fashion. Not only would I be offended if an older, more "mature" woman in the church came up to me and told me to go change my clothes, I would be hurt that she chose not to get to the "heart of the matter." If it had been a few years ago, I would have thought that Christianity wasn't worth my time if my attire was really that important... more important that my heart and the hurt inside of it. God changes us from the inside out, and we need to make sure that we do the same when training up others in the Lord. Heather you pointed out something really important here. In trying to reach those that are "lost", and dare I say, the people Jesus misses the most; theyre going to listen to those who are like them. Thus, a prostitute who is saved is naturally going to have more clout than say you and I who look all preppy, and have absolutely NO IDEA what they have gone through. So many young people and those who don't fit in to the typical "christian ideal" are turned off by the faith because of just this fact: THEY DON'T FIT IN. And that's the sad thing, because it's not God that's turning them away- it's the CHURCH! It really saddens me that those who began this thread with seemingly good intentions and now have been shown the errors of their ways refuse to admit this and humble themselves at the knees of the Lord. Until each of us can look at our own lives and say that we are a perfect Christian in every way (not going to happen FYI), we have no right to critisize and rebuke those around us. We should dance with Joy when anyone walks into the church seeking knowledge of our Lord. We should love eachother for our hearts, not our clothing choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierra21 Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 160 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,000 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/30/1983 Share Posted December 21, 2006 The point is, a lot of the "proper training" in this thread is not directly provable doctrine and teaching from the Bible. It is "commandments of men". If you want to follow commandments of men, that's your business, but don't go shoving it down other people's throat when there is no direct Biblical source for the doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierra21 Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 160 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,000 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/30/1983 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Here is a paragraph from part of my testimony I shared in another thread: We do not have to dress punk to reach out to punks, and frankly, I wouldn't have shared my pain with her if she dressed as a punk too. Something about her "stuck out" to me because she was different! That is exactly WHY I veered towards her!! I needed and desired something "different" yet I did not have a clue what that different thing was until I met a fellow sister in Christ!! I knew, after a short time, that she had something I wanted!! It is not necessary to conform to the world to make an impact. In fact it seems we would actually make less of an impact by conforming to the world, as our testimony would not be as strong. Here is the link to the rest of the post: http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry675031 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be seperate, says the Lord... I think you are right- you dressing up like a punk is not going to make punks listen, in fact I think this is all quite silly what you are saying. What I'm saying is that a former drug addict who has become a Christian will be able to reach drug addicts in a way which you and I would never be capable. I can't sit back and say "I know what you're going through and you will change your life if you find Jesus" because I DONT KNOW WHAT THEY'VE GONE THROUGH. And I'm not going to say that I do. The point made by Heather earlier is that we tend to respect those who are LIKE us, or know what we are and where we've been. Thus, it would make sense that the level of respect and attention would be higher. Blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted December 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2006 Some other thoughts... "Proper training," in the sense of addressing mannersims and outward appearance is very much a cultural matter. It is very relative. We need to be careful about teaching others things that are not specifically in scripture. My discipler with Campus Crusade (the one I've mentioned before) went down to Chile for a summer-long missions trip. She told me that when she got there, she was having a bit of trouble finding folks to witness to at first, because almost everybody hung out in the bars; she was trying to be "good" and follow what she had always been taught: bars are bad. Then she prayed... And she went into one of the bars, sat down (and didn't drink) and started sharing about what God had been doing in her life lately. She led several people to the Lord that summer. The Bible does not say bars are bad... The Bible does not say baggy pants are bad... I was also thinking... Let's say a prostitute does come to church (wearing her "street clothes"). She gets saved, and then goes back out to the streets. I would say her fellow prostitutes would probably listen to her witnessing to them more than they would to me. I would even say that they would listen to her more in her "street clothes" than in "church clothes." I am a modest in my attire. My friends tease me and say I am too modest and will never find a man this way! In examining my heart though, I have to say that my motives in this are not pure. I do not dress modestly because I feel God telling me to; I do not dress modestly in an effort to not tempt others. I dress modestly because (despite all the healing God has already done in my life) I still struggle with some body image issues. I could have the same motives, but, on the flip-side of it, "act out" in just the opposite way and dress in a skimpy fashion. Not only would I be offended if an older, more "mature" woman in the church came up to me and told me to go change my clothes, I would be hurt that she chose not to get to the "heart of the matter." If it had been a few years ago, I would have thought that Christianity wasn't worth my time if my attire was really that important... more important that my heart and the hurt inside of it. God changes us from the inside out, and we need to make sure that we do the same when training up others in the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts