eric Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I have to agree with Steve when he said. Good move. In the Bible, the baptism of the holy spirit is mentioned in two places: Acts 2 and Acts 10. In both cases, it came without warning. No one ever received this gift by asking for it, or by receiving instruction. Steve I believe if it was the Lord's will for me to speak in tongues........then I would be able to. I have no desire to able to, so why should I ask for something that would not be useful to Him or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted January 1, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2007 Jude 20... But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 14:2... For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. and verse 14: For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. Ok, that doesnt sound like praying in the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues. Especially verse 14 where it says if I pray in a tongue my spirit prays (not the Holy Spirit). I do know I pray in the Spirit without praying in tongues. When I pray in the Spirit, He shows me needs to pray for. There is a clear difference to me when I pray in the Holy Spirit, my will submitted to His. My prayers change when that happens. It has nothing to do with praying in tongues for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Regarding the subject of asking. Why can we not ask our Father for what he clearly wants to give? Ephesians 3:20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, James 4:2 You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. 1 John 3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 1 John 4:14-15 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us whatever we ask we know that we have what we asked of him. James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. (Asking God is not limited to wisdom) I asked God a few times. He prepared me and then gave! Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevej Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Paul does allow for prayer tongues, but he says the person should keep quiet and speak to himself and God when that happens in the church setting. Well when you have 500-700 people praying together, you will get a bit noisy when we pray together! Actually it is a wonderful musical sound, and I am sure God is very pleased with that fragrance. Jude 20... But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 14:2... For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. and verse 14: For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. Ok, that doesnt sound like praying in the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues. Especially verse 14 where it says if I pray in a tongue my spirit prays (not the Holy Spirit). I do know I pray in the Spirit without praying in tongues. When I pray in the Spirit, He shows me needs to pray for. There is a clear difference to me when I pray in the Holy Spirit, my will submitted to His. My prayers change when that happens. It has nothing to do with praying in tongues for me. Let's look at some logic. How are voices a fragrance to God. Is it because we sacrifce to worship and therefore is a fragrance. By the definition it is a smell. How can something verbal be a fragrance. By that logic when we fight against abortion, we are sacrificing time to fight. Therefore it is a fragrance to God. This logic escapes me. Related to the issue of tongues. God has not chosen to give me that gift. I have problems with both sides of the issue of tongues but the Holy Spirit would have to show me on a personal level not thru debate that seemingly goes on and never ends about this issue. No matter what the sisue is it has to be backed by the scripture and by the direction of the Holy Spirit and anything less is questionable in my mind as to whether it comes from God or is just a good feeling recieved that gives a temporary relief from the everyday pressures. Does that keep me from fellowshiping and having a relationship with those that do..of course not..it has become obvious in my own life that there are some things that i will be wrong about, and so will others. Christian fellowship those is not based on the issues of the gifts. That's my 2 cents worth..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Let's look at some logic. How are voices a fragrance to God. Is it because we sacrifce to worship and therefore is a fragrance. By the definition it is a smell. How can something verbal be a fragrance. So, now because I wax a little poetic, it is something to be "corrected"? Just as incense is a sweet fragrance, and God gladly accepted such offerings, so are our prayers, offered up to Him as praise and worship as sweet-smelling aroma! It is true...apart from logic! The sacrifice of praise is always a fragrant offering to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovinghim4ever Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I now attend a place of worship where tongues are neither denied nor practiced. Bluntly, I see more of G-d in the lives of the leaders and people where I now attend than I ever saw in the other church, in spite of their claims of being so holy. I am so unimpressed with the tongues movement, that claims that one must speak in tongues -- as well as those who claim one must fall backwards to the ground in order to experience G-d. I have a curious question for you. Why do some people type G-d? Why is the 'o' left out of God? Just curious! It's out of respect for His Holy Name. When Jews copied out scrolls, they would break their writing utensil after writing the Holy name of God, because it would never write a greater Name (they might do it still, for all I know). I think this is something along those lines. Wow! Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzav_LaTzav Posted January 1, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2007 (edited) Oh, now, you're scaring me, hr.jr. Why, read Pauls admonishment of the Corinthian Church. See if that church does not sound like many of the modern day Pentecostal churches that also need that admonishment. I have read it, Hr.jr. That's what's scaring me. It was all there -- right down to the abuse of G-d's Torah re sexual matters. I now attend a place of worship where tongues are neither denied nor practiced. Bluntly, I see more of G-d in the lives of the leaders and people where I now attend than I ever saw in the other church, in spite of their claims of being so holy. I am so unimpressed with the tongues movement, that claims that one must speak in tongues -- as well as those who claim one must fall backwards to the ground in order to experience G-d. I have a curious question for you. Why do some people type G-d? Why is the 'o' left out of God? Just curious! It's out of respect for His Holy Name. When Jews copied out scrolls, they would break their writing utensil after writing the Holy name of God, because it would never write a greater Name (they might do it still, for all I know). I think this is something along those lines. Wow! Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks. Well, in short, after years of consideration and of not writing the whole name of G-d or of the words directly connected with Him in our society, it comes down to this for me: the more I learn about Him, the more I love and respect Him. Now, I do not do this out of tradition but out of that love and respect. It is just my response, with no judgment whatsoever that reaches outside of myself. Edited January 1, 2007 by Tzav_LaTzav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevej Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Let's look at some logic. How are voices a fragrance to God. Is it because we sacrifce to worship and therefore is a fragrance. By the definition it is a smell. How can something verbal be a fragrance. So, now because I wax a little poetic, it is something to be "corrected"? Just as incense is a sweet fragrance, and God gladly accepted such offerings, so are our prayers, offered up to Him as praise and worship as sweet-smelling aroma! It is true...apart from logic! No one is correcting you tho i challenge you to show me anywhere in the scripture it indicates prayer or a voice is a sweet fragrance to God. The first usage of the term is found in Genesis 8 Gen 8:20 And Noah built an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. The phrase is used in relationship to a sacrifice. What sacrifice do we make in relationship to our prayers.? This is true of every usage of sweet savor in the Ild Testament. There is one reference in the New Testament: 2Co 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savor of his knowledge by us in every place. 2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 2Co 2:16 To the one we are the savor of death unto death; and to the other the savor of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? This is in relationship again to a sacrifice, the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf. It is His blood that is the sweet savor! The word fragrance is not found in the scripture. So wax poetically and back your belief with scripture. By the way i notice an absence of comment on the rest of the post. Which states clearly that even in disagreement fellowship is not broken between me and thee. So please do not take this as anything more than asking you to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Let's look at some logic. How are voices a fragrance to God. Is it because we sacrifce to worship and therefore is a fragrance. By the definition it is a smell. How can something verbal be a fragrance. So, now because I wax a little poetic, it is something to be "corrected"? Just as incense is a sweet fragrance, and God gladly accepted such offerings, so are our prayers, offered up to Him as praise and worship as sweet-smelling aroma! It is true...apart from logic! No one is correcting you tho i challenge you to show me anywhere in the scripture it indicates prayer or a voice is a sweet fragrance to God. The first usage of the term is found in Genesis 8 Gen 8:20 And Noah built an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. The phrase is used in relationship to a sacrifice. What sacrifice do we make in relationship to our prayers.? This is true of every usage of sweet savor in the Ild Testament. There is one reference in the New Testament: 2Co 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savor of his knowledge by us in every place. 2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 2Co 2:16 To the one we are the savor of death unto death; and to the other the savor of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? This is in relationship again to a sacrifice, the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf. It is His blood that is the sweet savor! The word fragrance is not found in the scripture. So wax poetically and back your belief with scripture. By the way i notice an absence of comment on the rest of the post. Which states clearly that even in disagreement fellowship is not broken between me and thee. So please do not take this as anything more than asking you to clarify. Our sacrifice of praise is a fragrance to the Lord. When He tells me that, I accept it. It is scriptural in that all sacrifices that are acceptable were a sweet-smelling aroma in the nostrils of God. We also are a fragrance to God. 2 Corinthians 2:14 In the Messiah, in Christ, God leads us from place to place in one perpetual victory parade. Through us, he brings knowledge of Christ. Everywhere we go, people breathe in the exquisite fragrance. Because of Christ, we give off a sweet scent rising to God, which is recognized by those on the way of salvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 1, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 1, 2007 You receive the Holy Spirit when your saved. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is another thing. Yes I have spoken in tongues but that is just the icing on the cake. The Holy Spirit lives in me everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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