tsth Posted December 15, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 15, 2003 Dear Brother, Your post blessed me tremendously. It brought to mind something I learned in the study of John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: In an indepth study of the word keep and its root meaning, it actually means to defend and protect. Which is in essence what you highlighted in much of your post, but this one in particular compelled me to remember, it is about defending God's Word. John 17:6 I have manifested Thy Name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee. I was blessed by that encouragement and remembrance. Even though you do not know my circumstances...........this was a lovely Word of encouragement to me tonight. Thank you for being His vessel. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted December 15, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2003 Endure that was awesome and well researched. I keep hearing OSAS people use this scripture when talking with them: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (Joh 10:28) Even that scripture is conditional if you read it in context with the previous verse: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (Joh 10:27-28) Jesus said my sheep are the ones that listen to me and obey me. The word follow can be substituted with the word obey. God's promise of eternal life and security is conditionally based upon those that listen and follow his word. All of God's Promises are conditional. The word covenant means legal binding contract between two parties. This contract or convent has legal obligations between both parties to fulfill. If one side later decides not to fulfill their obligations then the covenant is nullified. Meaning if one side breaks their promise of obligation to the contract then the other party is not required to fulfill their part either. We are saved under a New Covenant between God and Man. God has his obligations and Man has his obligations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His son Posted December 15, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2003 Hallelujah!!! What a blessing it is to read these posts and see the unity of the disciples just like it says in The Bible. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teri Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Jake well I'm finished and yes there is very many IF's in that book, I'm willing to bet it's all over the scriptures. I have to agree with the contract being between us and our Father. If one backs out why would the other have to continue on. Although there is one point I'm playing with and that is the marriage contract which Paul says if your married to an unbeliever to stay married because they will then have a chance at salvation. But it also says if the unbeliever CHOOSES to depart than let them go. No I do not believe OSAS and never have, for some reason it just never made sense to me so I ignored it. Blind your good at this. Is there a correlation between the Isralites being able to divorce before and the change to NT where a believer can not leave an unbeliever. I ask this because of our description of being married to the lamb. Is there something in that in the change from the OT covenant and the NT or am I grasping at straws here? In Yeshua's love Teri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted December 16, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Jake well I'm finished and yes there is very many IF's in that book, I'm willing to bet it's all over the scriptures. I have to agree with the contract being between us and our Father. If one backs out why would the other have to continue on. Although there is one point I'm playing with and that is the marriage contract which Paul says if your married to an unbeliever to stay married because they will then have a chance at salvation. But it also says if the unbeliever CHOOSES to depart than let them go. No I do not believe OSAS and never have, for some reason it just never made sense to me so I ignored it. Blind your good at this. Is there a correlation between the Isralites being able to divorce before and the change to NT where a believer can not leave an unbeliever. I ask this because of our description of being married to the lamb. Is there something in that in the change from the OT covenant and the NT or am I grasping at straws here? In Yeshua's love Teri Hi Teri! I have done my good deed for the day. If my posts have cause anybody to search out the Scriptures, then my job is done! I am not here to blast people or a doctrine. I am here to encourage, challenge, and help others. I just want to take as many people to heaven as I can. As for Deuteronomy (and all 5 of the Torah books), the symbolism is striking! The promised land, deliverance, miracles, the list goes on and on! We Christians have a great and fulfilling promise from our God and Father and it amazes me that people can call themselves Christians and yet live a life of sin and mediocrity. "Christian" means "Christ-like." Will any of us be sinless? No, but does that mean that we shouldn't make it our live's obsession to try? Considering the great lengths that God went through to prove His love to us, shouldn't we be compelled to strive to love Him with a zeal that is unmatched in the secular world? We are supposed to be different right? Didn't Jesus say that non-believers would know Christians because of their love? As for the marriage--that takes place in the future. As of now we are considered virgins to be striving to be without spot or blemish awaiting our bridegroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted December 17, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Amen Endure, Amen! In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teri Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Endure, did I say Thank-you? Yes you are doing a wonderful job. You know the first time I read the Bible from front to back I got this sense of this being my life story. I was a bad girl and over and over I was disciplined by the Lord. After a while all this discipline started to get to me and I strove to do things the right way just simply because I was tired of the consequences of doing wrong. But no matter how I tried I would fail. My motivation was more from fear than anything else. Then I met Christ face to face and fell in love, since then my motivation has been love and the results have been miraculous. In all of this it is God who provides me with the strength to overcome sin, and not from me because I couldn't do it before even when I wanted to. In working with others I have been using this IF/Then scenario without even thinking about it. I point out all the consequences their behaviors has wrought in their lives and then explain Christ and how He died and took on the punishment for us so we don't need to go through all that anymore. But the only way we can avoid it is to trust in Christ and to walk in the Spirit of God. When I'm walking in the Spirit I desire to do the right thing and the wrong thing repulses me. I'm wondering out loud again, Endure do you think the difference in opinion on this could be that some who think they are Christians have not been born again? Perhaps they are still in the part of their walk where they are trying to do it by self will and instead of acknowledging they can't they defend their sin? Or chalk it up to everyone sins? In Yeshua's love Teri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 We are saved under a New Covenant between God and Man. God has his obligations and Man has his obligations. The New Covenant is between God and Jesus not between God and Man. Jesus met man's responsibility on the cross. God's justice would only be satisfied with sinless blood. It is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant which is an unconditional covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted December 17, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Endure, did I say Thank-you? Yes you are doing a wonderful job. You know the first time I read the Bible from front to back I got this sense of this being my life story. I was a bad girl and over and over I was disciplined by the Lord. After a while all this discipline started to get to me and I strove to do things the right way just simply because I was tired of the consequences of doing wrong. But no matter how I tried I would fail. My motivation was more from fear than anything else. Then I met Christ face to face and fell in love, since then my motivation has been love and the results have been miraculous. Hi Teri. God bless and keep you. You don't need to thank me, I am just trying to spawn people to get in the Word and closer to God--something we all should be doing for each other. Thank God for speaking to you. In all of this it is God who provides me with the strength to overcome sin, and not from me because I couldn't do it before even when I wanted to. In working with others I have been using this IF/Then scenario without even thinking about it. I point out all the consequences their behaviors has wrought in their lives and then explain Christ and how He died and took on the punishment for us so we don't need to go through all that anymore. But the only way we can avoid it is to trust in Christ and to walk in the Spirit of God. When I'm walking in the Spirit I desire to do the right thing and the wrong thing repulses me. Yes, we can fully trust in Christ alone. He is our sufficency and our strength. I really hate it when I sin. I know that I displease God and I don't like to do that. I'm wondering out loud again, Endure do you think the difference in opinion on this could be that some who think they are Christians have not been born again? I will comment on the first part of your statement first. I think that a great deal of those who profess to be Christians are living a life of compromise. They do not really want to live a completely holy life because they are unwilling to fully submit to the Lordship of Christ. I personally know how it feels because I spent some years there myself. I fully believed in an unconditional eternal security--no matter what I did I was saved. But I had a friend challenge me on this and I searched out the truth. It took me over a year, but I finally rejected eternal security and now I actually have much more security in my walk with Christ than I did before. Strange you might ask? Well..... Before, my security was in a doctrine--the doctrine of eternal security. Now my security is in Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted December 17, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Perhaps they are still in the part of their walk where they are trying to do it by self will and instead of acknowledging they can't they defend their sin? Or chalk it up to everyone sins? I heard this very same thing today out of the woman that sits next to me at work. She is one of the most negative people I have ever been around, yet she is always talking about the Bible and Jesus. I made a comment today about holiness and people who are drunkards and said that God can save us from a sinful lifestyle and she said, "Well, everybody sins, 'All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.'" She spent many years in Charles Stanley's church and now she can't shake the sin in her life. I wonder if such is the norm or the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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