Mark 9:29

[icdchillin1]

Alright, so I understand that various bibles have either prayer written or prayer and fasting written. This is beside the point.

The question is here ,why would the demon only come out by prayer and fasting?

Now, the question is not neccessarily about the why as much as it is why the apostles could not drive the demon out. This is what I have noticed:

1. Jesus did not pray and fast over this specific situation. There was simply a command given as in many cases.

True He constanly prayed and fasted, but did the apostles not pray and fast?

2. Also, could it really have been an issue with faith? I mean, the apostles had driven out numerous demons by this point.

These are just a couple thoughts I believe that their is more meat to this scripture than most people give credit; I simply can not find it. Hey, I bet prayer and fasting might help in hearing God. Hmm...

-Warrior for God-

[Floatingaxe]

I have been reading of that recently also!

My understanding tells me that this particular demon was one of superior strength and authority. Some demons do require a preparatory period of prayer and fasting. It takes discernment for that. I believe the disciples were being obedient to their calling, but they lacked discernment in it, which Jesus pointed out to them, and I am sure, subsequently had much discussion of that with them which we are not privy to in scripture.

[Fiosh]

Checked my concordance. For what it's worth, the word used in this instance for "prayer", has the implication of earnest supplication to God.

Maybe they didn't pray hard enough, trusting in God to come thru for them. Maybe they were getting a bit too confident in their "own" power????

Just thinking aloud.

F

[Fiosh]

I have been reading of that recently also!

My understanding tells me that this particular demon was one of superior strength and authority. Some demons do require a preparatory period of prayer and fasting. It takes discernment for that. I believe the disciples were being obedient to their calling, but they lacked discernment in it, which Jesus pointed out to them, and I am sure, subsequently had much discussion of that with them which we are not privy to in scripture.

Gee, floatingaxe, maybe we could find that somewhere in oral Tradition? (sorry, couldn't help myself)

[Fiosh]

Try reading Matthew 17: 14-21 and Luke 9: 37-48.

[Floatingaxe]

I have been reading of that recently also!

My understanding tells me that this particular demon was one of superior strength and authority. Some demons do require a preparatory period of prayer and fasting. It takes discernment for that. I believe the disciples were being obedient to their calling, but they lacked discernment in it, which Jesus pointed out to them, and I am sure, subsequently had much discussion of that with them which we are not privy to in scripture.

Gee, floatingaxe, maybe we could find that somewhere in oral Tradition? (sorry, couldn't help myself)

I am sure that Jesus talked copiously about leadership and walking in the Spirit with His twelve. We CANNOT know all of what He entrusted to them, as they did not write all of it. They couldn't have. The gospel writers wrote what they believed was important for us to know, and what God ordained them to convey.

[Fiosh]

I have been reading of that recently also!

My understanding tells me that this particular demon was one of superior strength and authority. Some demons do require a preparatory period of prayer and fasting. It takes discernment for that. I believe the disciples were being obedient to their calling, but they lacked discernment in it, which Jesus pointed out to them, and I am sure, subsequently had much discussion of that with them which we are not privy to in scripture.

Gee, floatingaxe, maybe we could find that somewhere in oral Tradition? (sorry, couldn't help myself)

I am sure that Jesus talked copiously about leadership and walking in the Spirit with His twelve. We CANNOT know all of what He entrusted to them, as they did not write all of it. They couldn't have. The gospel writers wrote what they believed was important for us to know, and what God ordained them to convey.

Aww, c'mon. I was only funnin' with ya. Let's not derail ic's thread.

[icdchillin1]

I took a look at the other two scriptures a little bit ago before having looked at your suggestion, and it brought me to a point where I connected the prayer and fasting with the idea of a particular type of demon as well as an issue of lack of faith as mentioned in Matthew (mustard seed). However, I still feel that there is something more, and I thank you all for what you have come up with, but I really feel like there is something here to be revealed, something that is not merely a pre-meal salad if you will. Is it possible that these disciples were not neccessarily apostles? And is it feasible that to have faith but have it smaller than a mustard seed? I believe that there must be something said about that. One possibility is the idea of the disciples becoming too confident, if this is the case, the fear of man would prevent them from glorifying God. More thoughts are appreciated.

Edited February 12, 2007 by icdchillin1

[Floatingaxe]

The disciples were being obedient, but they lacked discernment. Jesus didn't chide them, but taught them. I am sure that in the the time He spent with them, they developed wonderful strengths in the area of discernment, which goes to point out that we can't rush headlong into casting out devils when we lack time spent with Christ and His Word, and haven't developed discernment.

[Fiosh]

I took a look at the other two scriptures a little bit ago before having looked at your suggestion, and it brought me to a point where I connected the prayer and fasting with the idea of a particular type of demon as well as an issue of lack of faith as mentioned in Matthew (mustard seed). However, I still feel that there is something more, and I thank you all for what you have come up with, but I really feel like there is something here to be revealed, something that is not merely a pre-meal salad if you will. Is it possible that these disciples were not neccessarily apostles? And is it feasible that to have faith but have it smaller than a mustard seed? I believe that there must be something said about that. One possibility is the idea of the disciples becoming too confident, if this is the case, the fear of man would prevent them from glorifying God. More thoughts are appreciated.

Hi icd,

Thank you for motivating me to look more deeply into this passage. After reading again the account in Mark, Matthew and Luke--- and reading over the chapters preceding and following it in each Gospel---I've noticed at least 3 common themes...maybe 4.

1. humility Mark 9: 33-37; Matt 18:1-4; Luke 9: 46-48

2. faith Mark 9: 19 & 23-24; Matt 16:8; Matt 17:17-20; Luke 8:48; Luke 9:41-43

3. carrying your cross Mark 8: 34; Matt 16:24; Luke 9:23

4. understanding of who Jesus is Mark 9: 7; Matt 16: 16; Matt16:27; Matt 17: 5; Luke 9:1-2; Luke 9:20; Luke 9:35; Luke10:23

It seems, if we tie all these together, that one must acknowledge that without Jesus, we are nothing. And to be like Him, we must lay aside all our pride and selfishness and take up our cross. We need faith in God, and faith in who Jesus is to be willing to sacrifice all for Him.

And, then, as we walk in His power, we need to remind ourselves that it is only when we allow Him to work thru us that we can accomplish great things. Even then, our focus must be not on the deeds but on glorifying God.

I'd be interested to hear your comments, icd.

Peace,

Fiosh