Doctrinal Dividing: The Sin of Many

[RCruise]

Hello to All in Jesus Christ:

After reading many threads recently (been away a few years) I have seen much hurting and pain in several areas of life expressed on these boards. I have lent out my heart and help to some and offered our Ministry's help and prayers. I have reasoned with some (debated in past years until I pulled back for a while to let Jesus have more His Way in my Life) in here on issues I see but in Love and no arguing or debate (at least I pray it wasn't conceived that way).

I am not bragging mind you for certainly I have my faults and failures yet but, as Paul, run the race to press for that "High Mark" in Christ Jesus. What else I have seen is some very upsetting posts supposedly by Christians even to using profanity and vile conversations to press their point. I see Three threads closed recently (some today March 11, 2007) about women preachers. A post by a person called "Hazard" had to be edited by a mod to remove profanity and / or other things highly offensive and it must have been fairly vile because what I saw remaining that wasn't edited out was bad enough. But others participated and arguements ensued and all three threads are now closed as I can see it, because of the ensuing debates and arguments and how some were treating other posters or mistreating each other.

This is not edifying each other and is not edifying The Body of Christ and, within that Body, it is not Edifying the young in Christ who see and read such verbage and discord. It also puts one who does so in danger of their own soul:

Matthew 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

I am not here to chastise nor is it my purpose and please do not argue or debate this for it is from much labor in Word and Prayer and given in Love.

When we "Debate", we fall into what Paul was saying:

Romans 1:28-32 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

This "list" Paul gives us is not an "all inclusive" requirement for each soul but a comprehensive analogy that if ANY of these exist in us, we are counted as such. And Paul did not leave it at that but spoke to it many times in his letters to other Churches:

2 Corinthians 12:20-21 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Ephesians 4:29-32 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I have been guilty in times past until the "Breaking" of my fallen nature by the Hand of God brought me unto His Clear and Concise Wisdom bringing the Light of Jesus Christ to bear on my own sin. We are told to "Bless and Curse not.." and again;

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

I have discovered that many struggles and curses in my own life disappear Mysteriously by that simple Scripture and understanding what "fruit I was eating" by violating it. Yet, I know it is no Mystery but the Power of Christ once His Wisdom takes root from the seed of His Word. This Truth applies across the board in our lives. I would suppose the question one must ask of themselves is:

Do I want Life or Death? Am I speaking "Life or Death"? For out of the abundance of the Heart, the mouth speaks.

James 1:1-27 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away. For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways. Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

[Phil.2:12]

Hi Ron;

You must have drawn quite close to Jesus during your time off as you have observed some things that simply pass by others who are not as spiritually sensitive. Not only are there problems here when brothers and sisters in the Lord talk to each other, but on other boards on other websites as well. I was a member of a forum on another website for a while until the flaming of the bretheren toward each other became too much. I didn't quit, just didn't post any more. Perhaps that is why I got an e-mail from the person who started the board informing all the people still registered that the board was being shut down permanently because the original intent of the forum had ceased to exist. Too much flaming and claiming "I am right, you dummy" followed by an immediate post from the opposite view stating "You don't know what you're talking about, dumb donkey".

I have not seen that level of hostility on this board yet, but I have seen some testiness between posters in some threads. That's why I admire your spiritual sensitivity and your willingness to point out our commom problem. I, for one, will try harder to watch my posting and try to post only those things which the Holy Spirit shares with me. Posting in the flesh will get you into trouble every time and I'm really not looking forward to this board going the way of the last board I was a member of.

There are many fine people posting here and I look forward to reading their posts in the future

Thanks again Ron.

[asap]

Ron,

I wanted to share that my Pastor spoke on just this subject this morning sharing most of the same scripture. I have not been active on this board lately for that same reason it gets so hurtful at times. I just sit and shake my head and it grieves me that we murder each other with our words. What kind of example are we setting? I pray that we can be sensitive to the Spirit talking to us and prompting us to speak life to all we converse with. Thank you for sharing your heart, I for one need to hear this often. Our words can kill. Thank you Father for the reminder.

Amanda

[RCruise]

Hi Ron;

You must have drawn quite close to Jesus during your time off as you have observed some things that simply pass by others who are not as spiritually sensitive. Not only are there problems here when brothers and sisters in the Lord talk to each other, but on other boards on other websites as well. I was a member of a forum on another website for a while until the flaming of the bretheren toward each other became too much. I didn't quit, just didn't post any more. Perhaps that is why I got an e-mail from the person who started the board informing all the people still registered that the board was being shut down permanently because the original intent of the forum had ceased to exist. Too much flaming and claiming "I am right, you dummy" followed by an immediate post from the opposite view stating "You don't know what you're talking about, dumb donkey".

I have not seen that level of hostility on this board yet, but I have seen some testiness between posters in some threads. That's why I admire your spiritual sensitivity and your willingness to point out our commom problem. I, for one, will try harder to watch my posting and try to post only those things which the Holy Spirit shares with me. Posting in the flesh will get you into trouble every time and I'm really not looking forward to this board going the way of the last board I was a member of.

There are many fine people posting here and I look forward to reading their posts in the future

Thanks again Ron.

Hello Wayne!

Yes I did draw close! But not easily since I have a very stubborn streak He has had to work out of me over time!

The Lord gave me Revelation during a very "breaking time" where at the end of that "breaking", I got to visit my beautiful Oregon for two weeks in Oct of 2006. I have had really bad cataracts set on earlier in 2006 and haven't been able to read my Bible directly for almost a year now. I use magnifier and SwordSearcher online since. But it was during my blindness of the flesh that He used to help me to see deeper Spiritually so, yes, I Priase Him for the physical blindness as well! I was working up until that trip but couldn't see very well and the boss was actively looking for someone to replace me of which I helped him to do. I took two weeks off supposing to finish out the year at least when I returned. I didn't have a job when I came back. But, the most wonderous thing happened during the trip. I have always got up early 4-5am to get ready, go find a coffee place, usually Denny's, where I could sit, relax, have my morning coffee and cigs (yes I said cigs) and read The Word and pray back in the smoking section.

While staying in Oregon, a Sherri's was in walking distance (can't drive due to the cats) and so I kept my routine since I automatically wake at the same time every morning. I had been down since I could no longer read His Word but, I still prayed. Every morning while we were there, The Lord spoke to me and Scriptures would come up to my remembrance and along with them a message about His Immense Love and desire to be Intimate with us and us with Him in The Spirit! It caused me to seek deeper and I thought I was already.

As far as the "job", it didn't matter, He had called me to Preach and Teach, not work for the world. We have had a few scary fincancial times but, we are just fine still almost six months later. My take home was about $650 a week average and it is missed but, we trust in the Lord and I know I must share what He has given me for the hour is darkening and many have not taken on enough "oil" to make the trip.

[RCruise]

Ron,

I wanted to share that my Pastor spoke on just this subject this morning sharing most of the same scripture. I have not been active on this board lately for that same reason it gets so hurtful at times. I just sit and shake my head and it grieves me that we murder each other with our words. What kind of example are we setting? I pray that we can be sensitive to the Spirit talking to us and prompting us to speak life to all we converse with. Thank you for sharing your heart, I for one need to hear this often. Our words can kill. Thank you Father for the reminder.

Amanda

Thank you asap and thank The Lord for Confirmation!

I knew it was from and of Jesus when I posted it but, there is always a wonder if it will do any good or be received. You are the second (received a PM also) to confirm someone's Pastor has taught recently what is said here. In the mouths of two or three witnesses! Praise the Lord!

And don't shy away by not coming here! Please! Loving witness is needed anytime! I wouldn't post if it wasn't "Worthy" ok, no more puns... But, this is one of the cleanest Christian Boards I have ever been on. You will always get non-believers and vitriolic Christians anywhere. Not a problem just do what Jesus said; "Return Good for evil......Bless and Curse not..." This is how the Church prevails against the gates of hell. We have to storm into "hell's domain" (Internet can be hellish) into the "strongholds" locked in every heart of Believer and non to put Jesus forth. It is His Battle, not ours for we are just Loving Messengers of The Faith and why we Believe it. So do stick around. A key is to "pick your battles" and if you know one is getting nasty, post a blessing and leave that thread. It Works! lol!

[RCruise]

An Israelite indeed in whom is no guile?

A very astute observation and truthful summary, what you have seen here is exactly what is going on in all the church buildings I've visited in the last 7 years.

This has been going on since Cain slew Abel and will carry on until the completion.

As Solomon said, ' there is nothing new under the sun'.

Grace & peace, H.

Hi Truster!

An "Israelite" by adoption perhaps. Don't know about the "no guile" thing....I pray it is gone or leaving! lol!

The observation is of a "blind in the flesh" man (cataracts and use windows magnifier) whom The Lord dealt with already over this same stuff. What I received of Him, I posted. It still speaks to me as well.

And yes, it is not new and it does go on in churches everywhere. I left the Lord for seventeen years because of that and worse but, in reality due to my own anger of it for they attacked several families. For a while after my return to Jesus in 1997, I was a "champion" for others when I saw it go on. They could attack me or say anything, I knew where my Faith stood and still do. But, The Lord showed me that I was returning evil even in defending others so, I still do but, with His Good Word and with Love as He teaches us in His Word. Not easy!

It is also why we have recently directed Harvest Time Church to a home Study and Group format which has it's own problems but fewer and more easily resolved in Christ.