Communism

[KeilanS]

Hey all, first off, I'm going to point out right from the start that I am not a communist, I don't think Karl Marx had the right idea. I have ever read a portion of the Communist Manifesto and can definatly say that Marx was far off in his thinking.

On the other hand, I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

I think that a perfect economic system has elements of both Communism and Capitalism. Now to be fair, many Americans are beginning to agree, but what is wrong with something like government controlled healthcare or education?

Due to the fall, a system like complete communism will not work (we're far too greedy), but I do not understand why people think that a government controlled health care system is "like communism" and is therefore wrong. Sure it's somewhat communist-like, but why is it wrong?

While I am fairly new in politics, and they are more of a side interest the last time I asked someone this they said "Poor Ignorant Canadian" or something along those lines, so I'm looking for something with a bit more substance than that. So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

God Bless,

Keilan

[apothanein kerdos]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

[KeilanS]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

So it wouldn't be possible to take Canada's system and replicate it on a larger scale? Because while I realize Canada's healthcare has it's flaws, it it fairly efficient and hasn't resulted in any mass deficit. Would it be impossible to break the US into several regions (perhaps even just use the existing states) and have the healthcare controlled independantly?

And of course, my real issue isn't just health care, it's why anything communism related is instantly considered wrong. Like cmparing the two side by side, obviously Capitalism works best (See Berlin prior to the wall) but is it so crazy to consider that a combination of the two might work well?

[KeilanS]

I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

Think democide (genocide and mass murder) on a scale unheard of before communism as a form of government became a reality (Russia, 1917). How many killed - about 110,000,000 give or take a few million. Pol Pot and Company (Cambodia) killed about 2,000,000 of their own between 1975 and 1978 - out of a population of 7,000,000.

So in a way, the idea of government control is not deserving on all the hatrid. Rather the way it was carried out in Russia.

And I suppose when I ask about Communism, I mean Socialism, obvious the idea of Communism is bad because it requires a violent revolution. (Such as what you just pointed out). Obviously horrible things have been done in the name of Communism, but the same can be said of Christianity (The Crusades). So it does not necessarily make a thing wrong. Although I would agree that Communism such as we saw in Russia is certainly troublesome and impossible. Unless we suddently all became perfect humans without a trace of greed, we need Capitalism, at least partially (and I think it is fair to say that the center point of our economy should be capitalism, with slight government controlled elements).

[Smalcald]

Hey all, first off, I'm going to point out right from the start that I am not a communist, I don't think Karl Marx had the right idea. I have ever read a portion of the Communist Manifesto and can definatly say that Marx was far off in his thinking.

On the other hand, I don't understand why communism has become nearly a swear-word in North America.

I think that a perfect economic system has elements of both Communism and Capitalism. Now to be fair, many Americans are beginning to agree, but what is wrong with something like government controlled healthcare or education?

Due to the fall, a system like complete communism will not work (we're far too greedy), but I do not understand why people think that a government controlled health care system is "like communism" and is therefore wrong. Sure it's somewhat communist-like, but why is it wrong?

While I am fairly new in politics, and they are more of a side interest the last time I asked someone this they said "Poor Ignorant Canadian" or something along those lines, so I'm looking for something with a bit more substance than that. So why do people act like Communism is intrinsically evil?

God Bless,

Keilan

Hi Killian,

I think the reason you see so many Christians have such a strong reaction to communism is that if you read the writings of Marx, and if you look at the only implementations of communism we have had on a large scale, it is overtly anti-Christian. In fact it specifically states that ALL religions are false and actually evil and are a delusion. Communism itself is patently anti-Christian and really anti-all faiths. So wherever communism has taken hold we have seen severe persecution of the Christian Church. Now ironically or actually we should not have been surprised, the Christian Church was actually a major player in the fall of communism in the Soviet Union, they were right to be scared of us, as Christians offered an alternative to state power. There is an excellent book about Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul, and the role these three played in bringing down the Soviet Union.

But don't confuse communism with governments which simply do not totally sell out to the private market or practice what is called

[apothanein kerdos]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

So it wouldn't be possible to take Canada's system and replicate it on a larger scale? Because while I realize Canada's healthcare has it's flaws, it it fairly efficient and hasn't resulted in any mass deficit. Would it be impossible to break the US into several regions (perhaps even just use the existing states) and have the healthcare controlled independantly?

And of course, my real issue isn't just health care, it's why anything communism related is instantly considered wrong. Like cmparing the two side by side, obviously Capitalism works best (See Berlin prior to the wall) but is it so crazy to consider that a combination of the two might work well?

No, because the scale is just too big. Think of a family. A family is manageable because it is only about 4-5 people. Can you take the same concepts from a family and apply it to a nation? Absolutely not! The reason is there is a broader portion of the population.

This was the genius in America's origin - it took government down to a local level. Even schools in America are dictated by elections (to the school board). The reason is the federal government can't work for everything on the local level. The reason is there are simply too many people (though we have lost this concept the last few years). This is also why a universal health care system wouldn't work. State health care systems might work, or even county health care systems - it's localized and the county's/states can work more efficiently than the federal government. A federal system, however, would totally collapse.

As for Communism overall - maybe you mean Socialism? The two are different. Socialism only deals with the economics of the issue while Communism deals with every aspect of life. Though Communism employs some Socialistic aspects into its economy, it also forbids religion, elections, free thinking, etc. This is why it is rightfully opposed.

I'm not against mixing Capitalism with Socialism, though this will have flaws. Pure Capitalism is just as evil as pure Communism or pure Socialism. Combining Capitalism with Socialism (though under a federalist system so states are employed more than the federal government) isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[KeilanS]

Well, after reading these replies, I think I am in agreement with the people who have posted here. I just couldn't quite express my ideas.

I have met people who treat any form of government control as evil (Namely Canada's healthcare policy and education) and that sort of rubbed me the wrong way. I did definatly mean Socialism, not Communism (I'm talking strictly economic here, the way the government works is a whole different animal).

I like the idea of mixing Capitalism with Socialism and agree that the purest form of either is corrupt and cannot work. (Although some in the west seem to think that Capitalism is good and Socialism is evil).

And obviously I am against the no-religion idea of communism

Thanks all,

God Bless,

Keilan

[apothanein kerdos]

Not a problem. Most people confuse Socialism and Communism, so it's not a big deal.

[apothanein kerdos]

I'm not against mixing Capitalism with Socialism, though this will have flaws. Pure Capitalism is just as evil as pure Communism or pure Socialism. Combining Capitalism with Socialism (though under a federalist system so states are employed more than the federal government) isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Be careful what you wish for - socialism is a scourge on mankind for many reasons and I would advance the idea that socialism and socialist states traditionally promote anti-Semitism in the world while the most capitalistic countries tend to promote freedom for Jews. In the 17th century it was the capitalist economies of the Netherlands and England that exhibited the most toleration for Jews and today it is the United States where Jews enjoy more economic freedom than anywhere else.

"Since World War II Jews and Judaism have been liberated in every country and territory where capitalism has been restored to vigorous growth-and this includes Germany. By contrast, wherever anticapitalism or precapitalism has prevailed the status of Jews and Judaism has either undergone deterioration or is highly precarious. Thus at this very moment the country where developing global capitalism is most advanced, the United States, accords Jews and Judaism a freedom that is known nowhere else in the world and that was never known in the past. It is a freedom that is not matched even in Israel. . . . By contrast, in the Soviet Union, the citadel of anticapitalism, the Jews are cowed by anti-Semitism, threatened by extinction, and barred from access to their God." ~ Ellis Rivkin,

[apothanein kerdos]

AP

Even Capitalism in Europe didn't bode well for the Jews - it only caused people to hate them more because they were successful. Likewise, you are talking about a pure socialist state, not one mixed with Capitalism.

There is no such animal as a