akilah Posted April 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2007 (edited) [deleted] Edited May 2, 2007 by akilah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted April 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I think we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted April 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Share Posted April 22, 2007 ... but I do not delude myself that I am judging fairly, based on ALL the facts - I don't know them! Even man's court system fails in that area. The facts can get either "misplaced" or "diluted" or "exaggerated" etc. Knowing of these failures, Jesus told us not to judge others lest we be judged. Of course, as far as "man's law" goes, I believe we are governed by superiors no matter where we go on this earth, beginning with parents. It's unexcapable, rules = obey, or else! I do believe much of what Paul wrote was, as he put it, God-breathed(inspired by God). Jesus said He came to "set the captives free" where Paul gave his authoritive approval of human slave ownership in his letters to the churches. This was a human weakness of Paul's, he enjoyed being catered to. It influenced some of his teachings. My ears are far more inclined to the Way Jesus taught as He is the reason we're all here, and He forgave freely with His life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diolectic Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 33 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/17/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) For someone who admittedly cannot spell, where are you getting these articles? I write these articles because of Morial(God is my Teacher) I think I get what your saying here. I think (correct me if I am wrong) but you are talking about the differnce between forgiveness and disicipline right? Not realy, I was trying to show how we are justifide. Since Justification is a legal term, I needed to start with the Law, however ther are two sides of the law; the letter and the spirit. Forgiveness and Disicipline would be another subject. This was a wonderful read, thank you so much for posting it! Your welcome That love should equal obedience, I do not deny ... but which parents or children here will say that their experience has been perfect and without minor mishaps? I'll answer that for everyone, and say none.Sorry, I don't understand the relation with my OP and children obeying parents But then you focused on the Law totally in your opening remarks - mixing between the Law of the OT and men's laws ... I am not sure what your point in doing that was.Sorry if I came acrossed that I was mixing Law of the OT and men's laws. I wasn't, I was only comparing the two since they are laws that I could show an example with. We are human, we err occasionally ... but to deliberately mock God by going out and committing that which we know to be sin, then turning round and expecting forgiveness? I don't think there is any room for taking The Christ's sacrifice on the cross for granted. Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Edited April 23, 2007 by Diolectic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2007 'Diolectic' An injustice can never be satisfied, in the sense that, the guilty can be punished until he ceased to be guilty, and became innocent. Hello Diolectic, Since this post is rather long I might have to respond to half if this post and the other half in a following post. I just want to say here that an injustice can always be satisfied by the victims of who incurred the injustice when the penalty of the law is carried out. So I disagree with you on this point. It the fact that the guilty is being punished by the law that is satisfying to those in whom are the victims it does not matter that the guilty become innocent or not it is solely that the innocent recieves justice as the law is applied and carried out toward the guilty and puninshment is administered solely and it is not like you say that the guilty become innocent. For example: one breaks the law by speeding then pays the fine for the crime; that one does not cease from being guilty for paying the fine, but, paying the fine only satisfies the law. In your example here if one breaks the law by speeding and the penalty for that is to pay a speeding ticket then the penalty was administered and the speeder is set free. The speeder if they pay the fine how can they be thus guilty. It is not so much paying the fine that satisfies the law it is the administering or the upholding of that particular law that "STOPS" the lawless in society from running a muck as in this example of the speeder the penalty is much smaller than say a murderer. As the case of the speeder there is no justice that needs to be administered as the speeder didn't hurt anyone else unless of curse he hurt someone or something of that nature then there would need be for justice like in the case of a murderer. Therefore, punishment for a crime against the law is not for the purpose of rehabilitation, but to satisfy the law. The law was meant for the lawless in society not for those who do right as punishment for a crime was just that punishment it is the punishment that should turn someone around and make them come to their senses while behind bars but many do not do this and only God can change a heart. So I agree with you on that one for sure. I think the law was put in place to protect the innocent I don't know neccessarrily what you are meaning by satisfying the law as the way I see it is that only a society can be satisfied if the law is adhered unto an upheld where the penalty of the law is carried out to it's full extent and carried through with punishing the lawless in society but the law is only words written down on paper but it the society that benefits from the law be adhered unto. The law is not founded in mere randomness, but in the Personhood of God or on the foundation of reality. The law in the Old Testament was put in place because it meant one day that true justice would come to those who had been done wrong as a result of another's sin. Through temptation in the garden Adam fell and as a result of that sin all the rest of humanity inherited death both physical and spiritually as all of us were innocent victims of what went on in the garden but yet we suffered just the same and the law was put in place by God to show all under sin as none of us are righteous no not one we've all come short of the glory of God. So God sent His Son Jesus fulfilling all the aspects of the law as He was that spotless lamb without spot as He died on the cross and shed His blood and Christ sacrifice appeased the wrath of God as it was the only sacrifice that would satify God as God through His Son rightened the wrong that was done to humanity in the beginning as we have been justified in Christ. The difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is that the letter relates to the outward action; the spirit relates to the motive or intention of the heart and from which the act should proceed. The letter of the law is the "written" down recorded laws of God or the laws of the land as we have law books or they say enforce the laws that are in the book as you may have heard that. But the letter of the law only means the written down laws we have in our bible's as we read them when we open our bible. The letter of the law gives us knowledge from God in order to know what violates Him so we will be careful not to tresspass against God and others. The written law once agains give us knowledge of the laws in what they are. The Spirit of the law is simply referring to the intent of why a particular law was written in what it was to stop or to protect was was the intent of the written law that was given it has nothing to do with outward actions or intentions of the heart but knowing what the law simply "IS" The spirit of the law requires impartial goodwill or benevolence, and is all expressed in one word--love. The letter of the law requires strict adherence to every precept, it is all expressed in one word--obey. The spirit of the law once again is the specific intent in why a law was put on the book to start with as this could be said to be the heart of the law as well. For example as this is crazy but things are done for a reason. There was a state which I can't recall right now but anyhow they had a law on the books that said you couldn't ride a horse in the court house well people got to wondering why that law was on the books and it was because back in the 1800's a person literally had rode his horse in the court room hence the law being put in place. Another example of this is the sodomy law that the courts threw out not to long back were used in order to tact on extra penalty time onto the child molestors and such because the present laws didn't carry enough penalty for the crimes so they used the sodomy laws to be able to charge them with that crime for the penalty it carried. No matter what law it is there is always a "REASON" in why it was written or added to the books the same with God's law. And again the letter of the law only brings knowledge of sin and our need for a Saviour. An example, the letter of the law says, do not commit murder! But the spirit of the law says anyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to Judgment. The spirit requires that certain conditions to be examined in their proper place. The letter or written word says, both it says do not murder and it says anyone who is angry with his brother without a cause and if you tresspass these two laws or commands then there is penalty. The spirit does not require certain condition to be met or examined to obey these laws either you obey or you disobey them. The letter of the law had us all guilty before God under the Old Covenant under the New Covenant we are IN the Spririt and the laws of God are on our hearts as we are the only epistles some people may ever read as we live out the word in our hearts as we are living espistles and IN The Spirit Romans 8 hence the Spirit of the law. The letter of the law is unyielding and sentences guilty all violators of its precepts, without regard to purpose. Just as the speed limit is 55 mph and one exceeds the limit, the law says, guilty. The spirit of the law sees the purpose of the excess speed for an emergency and says; keep speeding until purpose is met. Furthermore, when speeding for the purpose of an emergency, the spirit of the law is not broken, but fulfilled This is not true as the original Spirit of the Law was that you could not speed at all period. When you exceed the speed limits you are at the mercy of the law enforcement officiers even if you are speeding due to an emergency. As it is totally at their discretion if they let you off or give you a citation as again that was not the intent of the law or else everyone could claim an emergency situation. If there was an exception for emergency it would clearly be posted to be the case along with the speed limit sign. I will try to respond to the rest of this in another post at a later time as I've got to get some rest. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2007 Diolectic, your onto something. Continue on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2007 Diolectic, your onto something. Continue on! What are they onto Firehill please eloborate for us? OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Extremely interesting read, OC, very informative and educational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I write these articles because of Morial(God is my Teacher) Can you elaborate on the meaning of this statement, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted April 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2007 I write these articles because of Morial(God is my Teacher) Shalom Diolectic, Can you please expound on this? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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