God Doesn't Hire Scientists !

[apothanein kerdos]

So you tell the atheists "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge." Psalm;19;1 ,They are going to approve it right away?It was not to prove his existence God spoke to Job.Job already believed in God.God was trying to increase Job's knowledge of God by speaking to him all those things.Tell the atheists those same things.Are they going to respond like Job did at the end-Saying," Ok God now I believe."

So all atheists are scientists?

God used science to show His power to Job. Your point falls here, regardless of if Job believed or not. If God did it to strengthen Job, then your original assertion that Christians should not pursue science is shot down - if anything, they could at least pursue it for their own benefit in understanding God.

Likewise, you've yet to deal with Romans 1.

You can prove there's a god with science? I'd like to see that.

Then here are some books for you:

By Lee Strobel:

The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God

By Bill Dembski

Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology

The Design Revolution: Answering The Toughest Questions About Intelligent Design

The Design Inference: Eliminating Chance through Small Probabilities (Cambridge Studies in Probability, Induction and Decision Theory)

Science and Evidence for Design in the Universe (Proceedings of the Wethersfield Institute)

Signs of Intelligence: Understanding Intelligent Design

Intelligent Design: William A. Dembski and Michael Ruse in Dialogue (<---- Personal Note: This one is going to be very good. Both have worked together on this book and it's based on the debates they've had against each other. Michael can come across a bit nasty in the writing, but he does mean the comments in jest. The book will be released in October and I HIGHLY recommend anyone interested in the debate get it)

No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence

Mere Creation; Science, Faith & Intelligent Design

Michael Behe

The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism (Again, personal note: THIS is the book to have this summer concerning ID. Behe brings up entirely new arguments against Darwinism and for ID. It's going to be AMAZING)

Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution

Jonathan Wells

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design

Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth? Why Much of What We Teach About Evolution is Wrong

Also, don't forget to check out the following:

Uncommon Descent

Overwhelming Evidence

Discovery Institute

There is MUCH more...but this should cover it I hope.

[rtwo]

You better let Jesus and Paul know that it's wrong to use science (the observation of nature and how it works) to prove God and/or spiritual principles, considering they both did it.

Oh, make sure to send a carbon copy of that memo to God, since He did the same thing in Job.

Jesus and Paul glorified God more than anyone else in their lifetime through their ministry ,Yet without the help of sceince. They were full of the power of God.Aren't you talking about the same Paul who said this ; -"O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen" 1 Tim 6;21

So when Paul says in Romans 1 that even by looking at nature we can see that God exists, he's wrong? When Jesus appeals to nature in order to make a point about God, He's wrong?

What about in Job where God uses Job's observations of nature (science) to prove His power?

Do you have any scripture...or are you just babbling? That's a rhetorical question...we all know you're just babbling.

So you tell the atheists "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge." Psalm;19;1 ,They are going to approve it right away?It was not to prove his existence God spoke to Job.Job already believed in God.God was trying to increase Job's knowledge of God by speaking to him all those things.Tell the atheists those same things.Are they going to respond like Job did at the end-Saying," Ok God now I believe."

"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Cor ;1;20

I can see us going round and round here, but before we do -- do you have a point to make here, or are you just talking? Exactly why do you have a problem with people using science as a means of communicating about God?

Did I say I have a problem people using science as a means of communicating about God?Nay.If anyone is using science or any other source to glorify God that is good.I said God sent pople preach faith.Not to teach science.You have a problem with that?

"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Cor ;1;20

Yes, actually. It seems to me that's precisely what you -have- been saying. Apothanein, myself and others have pointed out how Christians are using science to glorify God, and you've been arguing. If you don't have a problem with it, stop arguing about it.

[bhakthi]

You better let Jesus and Paul know that it's wrong to use science (the observation of nature and how it works) to prove God and/or spiritual principles, considering they both did it.

Oh, make sure to send a carbon copy of that memo to God, since He did the same thing in Job.

Jesus and Paul glorified God more than anyone else in their lifetime through their ministry ,Yet without the help of sceince. They were full of the power of God.Aren't you talking about the same Paul who said this ; -"O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen" 1 Tim 6;21

So when Paul says in Romans 1 that even by looking at nature we can see that God exists, he's wrong? When Jesus appeals to nature in order to make a point about God, He's wrong?

What about in Job where God uses Job's observations of nature (science) to prove His power?

Do you have any scripture...or are you just babbling? That's a rhetorical question...we all know you're just babbling.

So you tell the atheists "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge." Psalm;19;1 ,They are going to approve it right away?It was not to prove his existence God spoke to Job.Job already believed in God.God was trying to increase Job's knowledge of God by speaking to him all those things.Tell the atheists those same things.Are they going to respond like Job did at the end-Saying," Ok God now I believe."

"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Cor ;1;20

I can see us going round and round here, but before we do -- do you have a point to make here, or are you just talking? Exactly why do you have a problem with people using science as a means of communicating about God?

Did I say I have a problem people using science as a means of communicating about God?Nay.If anyone is using science or any other source to glorify God that is good.I said God sent pople preach faith.Not to teach science.You have a problem with that?

"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Cor ;1;20

Yes, actually. It seems to me that's precisely what you -have- been saying. Apothanein, myself and others have pointed out how Christians are using science to glorify God, and you've been arguing. If you don't have a problem with it, stop arguing about it.

Ok if you guys do that i would like to thank God for you.I Ok bye .I don;t want to keep on this discusssion. God bless you

[Pizzaguy]

So all atheists are scientists?

Then here are some books for you:

By Lee Strobel:

The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God

By Bill Dembski

Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology

The Design Revolution: Answering The Toughest Questions About Intelligent Design

The Design Inference: Eliminating Chance through Small Probabilities (Cambridge Studies in Probability, Induction and Decision Theory)

Science and Evidence for Design in the Universe (Proceedings of the Wethersfield Institute)

Signs of Intelligence: Understanding Intelligent Design

Intelligent Design: William A. Dembski and Michael Ruse in Dialogue (<---- Personal Note: This one is going to be very good. Both have worked together on this book and it's based on the debates they've had against each other. Michael can come across a bit nasty in the writing, but he does mean the comments in jest. The book will be released in October and I HIGHLY recommend anyone interested in the debate get it)

No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence

Mere Creation; Science, Faith & Intelligent Design

Michael Behe

The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism (Again, personal note: THIS is the book to have this summer concerning ID. Behe brings up entirely new arguments against Darwinism and for ID. It's going to be AMAZING)

Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution

Jonathan Wells

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design

Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth? Why Much of What We Teach About Evolution is Wrong

Also, don't forget to check out the following:

Uncommon Descent

Overwhelming Evidence

Discovery Institute

There is MUCH more...but this should cover it I hope.

My favorite (I didn't see it above) was "God Is" by an author from England, written in the late 70's.

Excellant post - I think you won this one.

[Akiko]

God is not looking for scientists to prove his existence or to teach creationism.That is not the way it works. This is what God does."But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence." 1 Corinthians;1-29-29 When God sent Jesus Christ as a teacher he did not teach science. Jesus Christ came to do the things science cannot.To raise the dead .To give eternal life.To save the mankind from sin and condemnation and hell and all that. After two thousand years no scientists could do the works Jesus did.Walking on water,turning water into wine,raising the dead,etc,etc Finally he was taken up into heaven against the law of gravitation."There is no wisdon nor understanding nor counsel against the Lord " Proverbs;

St:Paul says;"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1 Corinthians;1;21

I can see where you're coming from. Trying to scientifically 'prove' God is impossible. However, tools like apologetics, creationalism vs evolution debates, and other scientific questions can be used as a powerful tool for Christ. The Bible should not be checked with a science book-- a science book should be checked with the Bible.

I know many people on Worthy (including myself) who are active on the Apologetics and Faith vs Science boards, and doing a great work for Christ by helping hard-core evolutionists see that the Bible isn't a load of bunk like some people think.

So you think God didn't exist before there was a subject called science?How did God start making himself known through the Gospel? Did He give the apolstles science lessons?If Jesus taught science three months the whole world could have been convinced of the existence of God beyond any doubt even in the first century. But he didn't do that.If you want to waste your time you can try .

"O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen" 1 Tim 6;21

Since you don't want to pursue the discussion, I don't plan to perpetuate it. However, there is one particular verse in Proverbs that helps me:

"Only simpletons believe everything they are told! The prudent carefully consider their steps." -Proverbs 14:15

Bottom line... faith comes first, then you can use science to back up your faith. Not the other way around. God stresses faith TONS in the Bible. When I dig into scientific evidence that only cements my already-existing faith in God, it really makes me appreciate His glory all the more! If that content helps an atheist (can't spell. ) come to Jesus, I'm all for it.

God bless.

Akiko

Edited May 6, 2007 by Akiko

[Kabowd]

Ok if you guys do that i would like to thank God for you.I Ok bye .I don;t want to keep on this discusssion. God bless you

Why are you unwilling to continue the discussion? Do you not want to be corrected? Or learn from differing views?

[bhakthi]

God is not looking for scientists to prove his existence or to teach creationism.That is not the way it works. This is what God does."But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence." 1 Corinthians;1-29-29 When God sent Jesus Christ as a teacher he did not teach science. Jesus Christ came to do the things science cannot.To raise the dead .To give eternal life.To save the mankind from sin and condemnation and hell and all that. After two thousand years no scientists could do the works Jesus did.Walking on water,turning water into wine,raising the dead,etc,etc Finally he was taken up into heaven against the law of gravitation."There is no wisdon nor understanding nor counsel against the Lord " Proverbs;

St:Paul says;"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1 Corinthians;1;21

I can see where you're coming from. Trying to scientifically 'prove' God is impossible. However, tools like apologetics, creationalism vs evolution debates, and other scientific questions can be used as a powerful tool for Christ. The Bible should not be checked with a science book-- a science book should be checked with the Bible.

I know many people on Worthy (including myself) who are active on the Apologetics and Faith vs Science boards, and doing a great work for Christ by helping hard-core evolutionists see that the Bible isn't a load of bunk like some people think.

So you think God didn't exist before there was a subject called science?How did God start making himself known through the Gospel? Did He give the apolstles science lessons?If Jesus taught science three months the whole world could have been convinced of the existence of God beyond any doubt even in the first century. But he didn't do that.If you want to waste your time you can try .

"O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen" 1 Tim 6;21

Since you don't want to pursue the discussion, I don't plan to perpetuate it. However, there is one particular verse in Proverbs that helps me:

"Only simpletons believe everything they are told! The prudent carefully consider their steps." -Proverbs 14:15

Bottom line... faith comes first, then you can use science to back up your faith. Not the other way around. God stresses faith TONS in the Bible. When I dig into scientific evidence that only cements my already-existing faith in God, it really makes me appreciate His glory all the more! If that content helps an atheist (can't spell. ) come to Jesus, I'm all for it.

God bless.

Akiko

I don't feel super smart as you do.I told my rasons.After reading all those books there are no more atheists or evolutionists in the world !

Edited May 7, 2007 by bhakthi

[Kabowd]

I don't feel super smart as you do.I told my rasons.After reading all those books there are no more atheists or evolutionists in the world !

Huh?

[bhakthi]

I don't feel super smart as you do.I told my rasons.After reading all those books there are no more atheists or evolutionists in the world !

Huh?

"I am the most ignorant of men; I do not have a man's understanding. I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One."Proverbs;30;1,2

[apothanein kerdos]

I don't feel super smart as you do.I told my rasons.After reading all those books there are no more atheists or evolutionists in the world !

Huh?

"I am the most ignorant of men; I do not have a man's understanding. I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One."Proverbs;30;1,2

Talk about misapplication.

1) Agur is referring to himself

2) He is talking about comprehensive knowledge of God

3) He is not speaking out against knowledge