Soul Sleep?

[rtwo]

A friend of mine is a believer in the idea of "soul sleep" -- that upon death, the soul itself doesn't actually go anywhere until the return osf Christ and the resurrection. He points out, for example, that when Jesus called Lazarus forth from death, Lazarus wouldn't have been in heaven yet; to force him to come back from there would have been too cruel.

I'm a believer, personally, that it doesn't matter; the ultimate outcome is the same. However, I've known many Christians who are really very bothered by this idea.

So, here are my questions:

1. Do you believe in soul sleep, or at least in the possiblity?

2. Why? (use Scripture.)

3. Does the idea of soul sleep cause a problem for you in your theology or walk with Christ, and if so, why would it?

I'm interested in a couple things here: one, -is- there any scriptural basis to back up the idea, or the opposition, for that matter? And two, why does it bother people so much? I find that we Christians often get hot and bothered by things that, it seems to me, don't really have much meaning on an eternal level; and I'm really curious how we've gotten our personal faith so entangled in dogma and tradition that small differences like this one really challenge our entire faith.

[FighterforJC]

A friend of mine is a believer in the idea of "soul sleep" -- that upon death, the soul itself doesn't actually go anywhere until the return osf Christ and the resurrection. He points out, for example, that when Jesus called Lazarus forth from death, Lazarus wouldn't have been in heaven yet; to force him to come back from there would have been too cruel.

I'm a believer, personally, that it doesn't matter; the ultimate outcome is the same. However, I've known many Christians who are really very bothered by this idea.

So, here are my questions:

1. Do you believe in soul sleep, or at least in the possiblity?

2. Why? (use Scripture.)

3. Does the idea of soul sleep cause a problem for you in your theology or walk with Christ, and if so, why would it?

I'm interested in a couple things here: one, -is- there any scriptural basis to back up the idea, or the opposition, for that matter? And two, why does it bother people so much? I find that we Christians often get hot and bothered by things that, it seems to me, don't really have much meaning on an eternal level; and I'm really curious how we've gotten our personal faith so entangled in dogma and tradition that small differences like this one really challenge our entire faith.

First of all, according to "soul sleep" believers, those whose souls are "asleep" until the resurrection day will not even sense any passage of time. Meaning that from the time that the person died and his soul went to sleep, to the time that he wakes up on resurrection day, it would've seemed instantaneous, and he wouldn't even feel like his soul has been asleep for centuries. So the doctrine, even if were true, is really a moot point. And as far as your friend pointing out how "it would've been too cruel" for Jesus to pull out Lazarus from heaven, well, that argument really sounds more like an opinion. God's ways are above ours, and I thank God that He doesn't do things the way we would.

To answer your questions:

1. No, I don't believe in soul sleep.

2. I'm at work and can't do any real in-depth research, but the Bible teaches us that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." In Jesus story about the beggar and the rich man who both died, Jesus described how the rich man was in Hades being tormented while the poor beggar was in Abraham's bosom. The rich man was definitely not in "soul sleep," as he begged to be able to communicate with his still living brothers so that they wouldn't have to experience the torment. The rich man also requested for the beggar to reach out with his finger so that at the very least his tongue could be cooled. Also, in Revelation, the martyred souls were pleading with God as to when their blood will be avenged. Maybe they were talking in their sleep?

3. No, the idea of it is so absurd that to me it is even shameful to take it into serious consideration. Besides, salvation is not based on whether or not you believe in the doctrine of soul sleep. What does bother me is why professing Christians would devote themselves to promoting this doctrine. Once every single Christian in the world believes in "soul sleep," how does that glorify the Lord, and what would've been accomplished for the kingdom of God? Absolutely nothing.

Edited May 4, 2007 by FighterforJC

[Phil.2:12]

A friend of mine is a believer in the idea of "soul sleep" -- that upon death, the soul itself doesn't actually go anywhere until the return osf Christ and the resurrection. He points out, for example, that when Jesus called Lazarus forth from death, Lazarus wouldn't have been in heaven yet; to force him to come back from there would have been too cruel.

I'm a believer, personally, that it doesn't matter; the ultimate outcome is the same. However, I've known many Christians who are really very bothered by this idea.

So, here are my questions:

1. Do you believe in soul sleep, or at least in the possiblity?

2. Why? (use Scripture.)

3. Does the idea of soul sleep cause a problem for you in your theology or walk with Christ, and if so, why would it?

I'm interested in a couple things here: one, -is- there any scriptural basis to back up the idea, or the opposition, for that matter? And two, why does it bother people so much? I find that we Christians often get hot and bothered by things that, it seems to me, don't really have much meaning on an eternal level; and I'm really curious how we've gotten our personal faith so entangled in dogma and tradition that small differences like this one really challenge our entire faith.

Personally, I have never seen any Scripture that supports "soul sleep". Apparently this belief exists because no one really wants to go to hell when they leave this earthly domain, so they fall for the "soul sleep" idea to explain what happens to their soul upon their demise. This idea of "soul sleep" is often linked with the Hebrew word "Sheol" (Strong's 7585 in Hebrew section) since this Hebrew word suggests a "sleep" that one does not wake up from. However, this word also means hell, which is not acceptable to those who seek a definition that does not include the concept of hell. The Word of God is very clear on the concept that your sins will separate you from God forever. Since a truly holy God cannot look on sin, when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, God had to separate Himself from them. In order for God to continue interacting with His creation, He had to cover their sin with something so that He would not see their sin when He interacted with them. God chose the blood of an innocent animal, pointing to the time that His Son's blood would pay the sin debt of all those who accepted this free gift from God, the permanent payment of their sin debt by Jesus, God's only begotten.

So, there in the third chapter of Genesis within the closing verses, we find that God had clothed Adam and Eve with the skin of an animal. Of course the animal had to be killed first, which would result in the animal's blood being shed, before it could be skinned and its coat made into garments for Adam and Eve.

The concept of the blood sacrifice is carried over into the fourth chapter of Genesis where the two boys, Cain and Abel were to offer a sacrifice to God. Cain's sacrifice of grains and produce was deemed unacceptable by God while God accepted the blood sacrifice of Abel. showing that God wants a blood sacrifice, not one of fruits and vegetables, for the blood covers the sin of the person offering the sacrifice whereas the fruits and vegetables covers nothing. Since the blood only covers the sin, but does not remove it at all, the blood sacrifice has to be repeated over and over to cover the sins we continue to create.

Jesus died once and removed the sin debt we owe. Therefore no other sacrifices are needed since our sin debt is paid for us by Jesus and the sin debt no longer exists. Of course, to receive this most magnificent gift that ever existed, we must accept Jesus as our Savior, as our debt payer. If we decide not to accept the gift Jesus offers us, we must pay our own sin debt and that means that we will be totally separated from Almighty God. This does not translate into a "soul sleep" but a total and eternal separation from our Creator. In other words, we are immediately in the place where God exists (Heaven) or in that place where everyone is paying their own sin debt (Hell) when our soul leaves this earthen vessel it now inhabits.

Throughout the Word of God there is factual support for two places where the soul (spirit) of man will dwell; either in His presence or totally out of His presence. The Scriptures, in their entirety, do not support the "soul sleep" concept but rather vigorously deny such a concept. Such a concept, therefore is a false concept designed by Satan to convince us that hell is not real, rather we will experience a "soul sleep" when we physically die.

[None]

1)yes

2)the reference you gave and more, example:

Daniel 12:2-3

2)Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

3)Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

At the same time, I believe God can and does awaken whoever He wants whenever He wants for whatever purpose He sees fit.

I have no scriptures to back that, though.

[Guest]

Great Subject, Being With Jesus That Is!

Pretty good stuff here.....

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=28920

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Eliyahuw]

A friend of mine is a believer in the idea of "soul sleep" -- that upon death, the soul itself doesn't actually go anywhere until the return osf Christ and the resurrection. He points out, for example, that when Jesus called Lazarus forth from death, Lazarus wouldn't have been in heaven yet; to force him to come back from there would have been too cruel.

FIrst of all no i don't believe in it.

Secondly in response to your friends reference to christ bringing lazarus from the dead. IF you remember correctly, Christ had not been crucified at that time. So lazarus would have been in sheol waiting for christ to come get those who had died in righteousness previous to Christs death and taking on the sins of the world. SO he would not have been in heaven yet.

Simply put, he brought him literally from the place of the dead where they were held until christs blood was shed and he redeemed them from that place.

[rtwo]

A friend of mine is a believer in the idea of "soul sleep" -- that upon death, the soul itself doesn't actually go anywhere until the return osf Christ and the resurrection. He points out, for example, that when Jesus called Lazarus forth from death, Lazarus wouldn't have been in heaven yet; to force him to come back from there would have been too cruel.

FIrst of all no i don't believe in it.

Secondly in response to your friends reference to christ bringing lazarus from the dead. IF you remember correctly, Christ had not been crucified at that time. So lazarus would have been in sheol waiting for christ to come get those who had died in righteousness previous to Christs death and taking on the sins of the world. SO he would not have been in heaven yet.

Simply put, he brought him literally from the place of the dead where they were held until christs blood was shed and he redeemed them from that place.

Hm. Good response. I often forget to look at the simplest explanations.