apothanein kerdos Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 Unfortunately, in our society people equate authority/power with "equality." If someone has more authority than we do, somehow we view that as being above us. This is not true. People can have more authority than others, but still be equal with others. I don't follow your first statement. If somebody has more authority than I do, that somebody, male or female, is definitely above me at least in that circumstance. We may be of equal worth in terms of being part of the human race, but in that instance, if they have more authority than I, we are not equal. Ontologically you are still equal. In purpose you are still equal. In your roles you are still equal. Just because one role carries more authority does not mean that role is more important than any other role. You might not be equal in terms of authority, but in terms of being, purpose, vocation, etc., you are equal. Is Jesus lesser than God the Father because God the Father holds authority over Jesus? Or are they all equal with different roles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 I would say that feminism is definitely anti-Christ. But the repressing of women is just as anti-Christ. Shalom Mike, But who was talking about repressing women? Feminism is so insidious because it makes fleshly sense and makes us feel good. "Of course we all should be equal" rhetoric. Politically and logically correct, we are equal as far as salvation and our standing with G-d, but our roles and calling are different. It's not about equality, it's about G-d's order and a servant's heart. The Scriptures show a deeper picture, the real truth that is one of G-d's order and hierarchy. Jesus Husband Wife Children A women who knows her calling and walks in G-d's ways in submission to her husband is never repressed or 2nd class. We're not talking about man's sinful actions of repression, we're talking G-d's beautiful role for women, in submission to their husbands, not in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 Even within the God-head there is an equality of deity but a differing of roles between members of the God head. Any discussion of roles and authority should reflect the tinitarian relational reality that marriage is mean to display Shalom Eric, Amen!! Ephesians 5 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Even within the God-head there is an equality of deity but a differing of roles between members of the God head. Any discussion of roles and authority should reflect the tinitarian relational reality that marriage is mean to display Shalom Eric, Amen!! Ephesians 5 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Interesting that Paul, in all his meticulousness, didn't add, "...and Lord", to verse 23! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Unfortunately, in our society people equate authority/power with "equality." If someone has more authority than we do, somehow we view that as being above us. This is not true. People can have more authority than others, but still be equal with others. I don't follow your first statement. If somebody has more authority than I do, that somebody, male or female, is definitely above me at least in that circumstance. We may be of equal worth in terms of being part of the human race, but in that instance, if they have more authority than I, we are not equal. That reminds me of how this verse is usually missapplied Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. There is a difference of authority even if there is equality of position. Whether that difference is "better" or "higher" or of superior quality is only a decision of human comparisons. For instance, my Pastor might have spiritual authority over me within the boundries of a congregation but does that make him "better" than me in God's eyes? Of course not. And there are different ways of measuring authority and only the human measurement is being taken into consideration here. You are in authority over those whom you serve according to Jesus Mark 10 42But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your servant: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 Yes, many men are extremely chauvinistic and abuse that authority but they need to get themselves right with God because chauvenism is no less a sin than Feminism. There is room for both equality between man and wife but there also needs to be acceptance of one authority which can be managed fairly and justly based on the love and understanding between the two parties. Feminism places a preventive barrier between man and womans ability to communicate that Authority responsibly and effectively. Peace CJ exactly, male chauvenism and ego huge problems in our society. that's why its good to find a good man in the Word before even starting the relationship. At the point of meeting that person for the first time. Unfortunately, there are women that want to turn their men to Christ or vice-versa. then as they struggle it tougher than one seems. then as they struggle they say to themselves "I'm not going to submit myself to this man." Girlfriend, this was not a man that walked with God when you got with him. *snaps fingers and twists neck* ... 3xR0c|<stAr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneV Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 720 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1947 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I would say that feminism is definitely anti-Christ. But the repressing of women is just as anti-Christ. I think both exrockstar and my wife make great points. I think that in years past Christian men basically ran rough-shod over their wives, using Bible verses taken out of context to "be the king of their castle." I would say that in recent years, the exaggerated position of women has taken its toll on marriages. There is a Divine order to things, without regard to "curses" in Genesis. In Christ, the curses are negated. But we still have to live this life, in the flesh, and we have to respect the various gifts and talents each partner brings into a marriage while acknowledging this Divine order. As a general principle, it is clear the primary responsibility of the marriage in the spiritual realm falls on the husband's shoulders; he is to be "high priest" of his family. On the practical level, though, I am man enough to say I don't have a clue about certain things, like finances, for example. God has put me together with woman who manages finances like a pro. Why would I want to take charge of something she does so much better? On the other hand, there are some things (can't think of any off hand right now...) that I do better than Marnie, and so I have charge of those things. Somebody way back mentioned the word "partnership." At it's most basic level, a marriage is a partnership; it is a financial partnership, a business partnership, an emotional partnership, a sexual partnership and a spiritual partnership. Both partners have a responsibility to ensure the smooth operation of that partnership throughout the life of that partnership. A dysfunctional marriage (partnership) is when one partner abdicates their responsibility totally and sits back and allows the other partner to "run" things as they see fit. That's unfair and selfish. Yep I'd say you make a pretty good team 'boss' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graymousey Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 91 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 methinkshe wrote: "Scripture teaches that the husband is the head of the wife, and that although male and female are of equal worth in God's eyes, they differ in terms of their responsibilities before God and therefore have been appointed different degrees of authority. Christian marriages symbolise the union between Christ and His church - the bride. If we overturn God's order by suggesting that husbands and wives have equal authority, do we not undermine the relationship between Christ and the bride? If a woman has the greater, or even equal authority within a Christian marriage, does that not allow the false view that the church has authority over Jesus, her head? And is this not why Paul says that he does not permit a woman to teach in church - i.e. a general assembly of men and women? The implication would be that the bride (the church) could authoritatively teach Jesus Christ, her head. " Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 Even within the God-head there is an equality of deity but a differing of roles between members of the God head. Any discussion of roles and authority should reflect the tinitarian relational reality that marriage is mean to display Shalom Eric, Amen!! Ephesians 5 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Yes, but of course, we know Paul didn't mean EVERYTHING. Suppose Mike came home one day and lost his mind and said, "Hey honey, let's go beat up Jose and steal his new pick up." Now, aside from the fact that Jose and his brother are great guys who look after our horses, and I don't like pick ups to begin with, would I be expected to obey Mike? No way, Jose. Being an obedient wife does not mean being an ignorant wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted May 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2007 "And is this not why Paul says that he does not permit a woman to teach in church - i.e. a general assembly of men and women?". Regarding women not being allowed to preach? God does call women to preach. There is as much contraversey regarding the subject, whether God calls women to preach as there is on all other doctrinal issues. Thankfully, as always, the Scriptures clear up this question like they do all others matters if we will but believe the Bible. In the gospel there were several woman messengers who proclaimed the good news (Matt. 28:1-10; Luke 24:9-11; John 4:28-30; 20:16-18). In Acts we have a prediction that God will pour out of His Spirit in the last days "UPON ALL FLESH; and your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; and upon my servants and upon my HANDMAIDENS I will pour out of my Spirit and they will prophesy." Prophesying is explained in 1 Cor. 14:3-4 as "speaking unto MEN to edification and exhortation and comfort." Thats preaching, teaching, praying, in anyones language. and God says He will pour out His Spirit upon men and WOMEN to enable them to do this! These following passages prove to any unbiased mind that prophesying is for the church which has men and WOMEN members (1 Cor. 12:1-13; 14:1-6, 12, 24-26, 29-33). In Acts 21:8-9 we read Philip had four daughters that did prophecy or preach in the early church. In Romans 16 we have Phebe, Priscilla, Mary Junia, Tryphosa, Persis, all female names, women mentioned as laborers in the gospel. In Phil. 4:2-3 we have Euodias and Syntyche, two women who are emntioned as leaders in the local church at Philippi. They are refered to as "those WOMEN which labored with me in the Gospel." Paul speakes of the Corinthian women prophesying and praying in church (1 Cor. 11:4-5). When paul said for women to "keep silence in the church" he was not speaking of women preaching, prophesying or praying, but he referred to women asking their husbands certain things at church. He said, "If they will learn anything, let them 'ASK' their husbands at home" and not in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35). But that they could PREACH, speak, prophecy and pray in church is clear from 1 Cor. 11:4; 14:3-4, 23-26; and Acts 2:16-21. Women have been used in all ages by God, Read (Ex. 15:20; Judges 4:4; 2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chron. 34:22; Neh. 6:14; Isa. 8:3; Luke 1:39-56; 2:36). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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