apothanein kerdos Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 When we have countless Bible scholars all arguing for their own theological perspective, what should we do? Pick the one with the highest qualifications; pick the one that most closely agrees with our church's doctrine; pick the one we think lives the most Christ-like life; .... Most of us would fall back on our denominational bias: Catholic; Protestant-liberal; Protestant-evangelical; Pentecostal-charismatic; etc Again, just because it is abused doesn't mean it's wrong. You're arguing that our presuppositions defeat the purpose of exegesis, but I dealt with this in the article. Actually, I did not get the gist that the article was recommending we all consider only what Bible scholars say. Rather we should all do our best to follow studious principles when researching Scripture. At some point we will have to rely on scholars. No matter what, it will occur in our studies. The purpose of the article was to guide people on how to study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 If we can't trust the Scriptures and/or we cannot trust our ability to interpret the Scriptures, then the Judeo-Christian God is no different than the Eastern concepts of "god" or "gods" who are transcendant and unknowable. If truth cannot be accurately discerned, then the Bible and God are cruel because He demands things of us (such as pursuing wisdom and understanding), that we are incapable of accomplishing. If the Bible is an unreliable source for truth (whether by lacking it, or our inability to discover it), then it is the worst waste of paper in human history. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2007 Yes, good point indeed! That's the perfect response to 'intellectuals' who belittle other's opinions or suggest they can't understand the word of God because they are 'degree challenged'. We need to remember to whom the glory should be given when reading and interpreting the Bible.....and it's not any of US. It's not a good point. It's post-modern relativism which denies absolute truth. I'm not sure you're even aware what bandwagon you're jumping on here. Who are the "intellectuals" you are referring to? Where has anyone been "belittled" for their opinions? I think most of the time people cannot separate the difference between someone disagreeing with their argument versus someone attacking them personally. Regardless of the inability to discern the two, this does nothing to prove the case that proper exegesis and hermenuetics should be pursued for God's glory. I beg to differ here; it was an excellent point, and your post illustrates this. Because you're not sure of my, or anyone's, awareness isn't relevant. I have no inability to discern between condescending elitist rhetoric and genuine discussion, thank you. And, regardless of your skepticism that others can understand which 'bandwagon' they are jumping on, I think most of us do. Postmodern relativism doesn't fit the Christian who reads the Bible and strives to understand Scripture. All endeavor should give the glory to God, for without Him, such endeavor is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2007 So what do you do when your intellectual analysis disagrees with someone else's intellectual analysis? One tip I've picked up is just label the other guy's interpretation "eisegesis" ... seems to work for some Good point. Yes, good point indeed! That's the perfect response to 'intellectuals' who belittle other's opinions or suggest they can't understand the word of God because they are 'degree challenged'. We need to remember to whom the glory should be given when reading and interpreting the Bible.....and it's not any of US. It is not the perfect response. The question demonstrates a lack of understanding behind the design and purpose of hermeneutics. No one here has been belittled as "degree challenged." I certainly hope you are not leveling that charage at anyone in this thread, and if you are, you need to copy paste where this has happened, or withdraw the allegation. I'm withdrawing nothing, my friend. As with everything else, interpretation is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 So what do you do when your intellectual analysis disagrees with someone else's intellectual analysis? One tip I've picked up is just label the other guy's interpretation "eisegesis" ... seems to work for some Good point. Yes, good point indeed! That's the perfect response to 'intellectuals' who belittle other's opinions or suggest they can't understand the word of God because they are 'degree challenged'. We need to remember to whom the glory should be given when reading and interpreting the Bible.....and it's not any of US. It is not the perfect response. The question demonstrates a lack of understanding behind the design and purpose of hermeneutics. No one here has been belittled as "degree challenged." I certainly hope you are not leveling that charage at anyone in this thread, and if you are, you need to copy paste where this has happened, or withdraw the allegation. I'm withdrawing nothing, my friend. As with everything else, interpretation is the key. You need to stop throwing around baseless accusations if you can't quote where people were "elitist." Your previous post that did this was reported (and deleted). I don't want this thread to turn into a trash fest...if you feel people are being elitist, then report their posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2007 So what do you do when your intellectual analysis disagrees with someone else's intellectual analysis? One tip I've picked up is just label the other guy's interpretation "eisegesis" ... seems to work for some Good point. Yes, good point indeed! That's the perfect response to 'intellectuals' who belittle other's opinions or suggest they can't understand the word of God because they are 'degree challenged'. We need to remember to whom the glory should be given when reading and interpreting the Bible.....and it's not any of US. It is not the perfect response. The question demonstrates a lack of understanding behind the design and purpose of hermeneutics. No one here has been belittled as "degree challenged." I certainly hope you are not leveling that charage at anyone in this thread, and if you are, you need to copy paste where this has happened, or withdraw the allegation. I'm withdrawing nothing, my friend. As with everything else, interpretation is the key. You need to stop throwing around baseless accusations if you can't quote where people were "elitist." Your previous post that did this was reported (and deleted). I don't want this thread to turn into a trash fest...if you feel people are being elitist, then report their posts. Excuse me, but who was addressing you, AK? My post was an expression of my views and, last time I looked, this was still the whole idea behind discussion. If you want only your views expressed you're probably going to be disappointed. Interpretation is still the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted May 28, 2007 You need to stop throwing around baseless accusations if you can't quote where people were "elitist." Your previous post that did this was reported (and deleted). I don't want this thread to turn into a trash fest...if you feel people are being elitist, then report their posts. I must be really out of touch with the youth these days. The idea of "reporting" people who observe that there are "elitist" groups ...... My guess is that well over half the people on ANY forum gather themselves together in cliques with some amount of pride that their group is the one with all the "right" doctrines. that is a definition of being elitist. With that definition every Christian denomination is elitist. And yeah, sometimes theology students and scholars do the same. I'm on a few specialized lists (Greek, Hebrew, Theology) and you better believe it that these people (who should know better) get cliqish, wanting to shut down questions with implications they aren't knowledgeable enough. But only the naive or the brave would dare to identify who or what these people might be ANY where. That would be like wearing a sign on ones forhead that reads "kick me, spit on me, abuse me". And really AK is there any thread people get excited about that doesn't turn "trashy" to some degree? Now why do you think that is? I suspect that there are people in every forum who have a "report" button on their keyboard. But I don't recommend burdening the moderators with every little thing we don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2007 This is too good of a thread to let it get closed or deleted because of offenses. Let's get back on the original topic and stop the I said, you said, he said stuff. Interesting thread Well done everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 28, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2007 This is too good of a thread to let it get closed or deleted because of offenses. Let's get back on the original topic and stop the I said, you said, he said stuff. Interesting thread Well done everyone. I agree Traveller. This IS an interesting thread and, once again, several of us have gotten a little overly aggressive and strayed off into 'I'm right and you're wrong' rhetoric; myself included. It seems that the original topic has been totally forgotten! If I have offended anyone I'm sorry; my remarks were observations on discussions in the real world, as well as on this forum, and not directed at anyone in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 One thing that is important to remember is the interpretation is objective, and application is subjective. Often people treat interpretation as a subjective thing... "That's YOUR interpretation." That is not how interpretation works. Interpretation is based on the intent of the author, and nothing else. People get confused and treat the application as the interepretation and that is why arguments occur. God may minister the same passage of Scripture to two different people with two completely different needs. That will necessarily affect how they view that passage. However, instead of recognizing that the same passage can be applied in different ways to different needs, they mistakenly think that the way God ministered it to them is THE interpretation, and anyone who has a different experience with that passage is "wrong." It is a common error, and frankly highlights why more training in this area is needed in the Church. We have to get passed the silly notion that using your brain quenches the Spirit, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts