WN: People born homosexual, say local school officials - World Net Dai

[Ovedya]

Sin is a spiritual matter brought on by disobedience.

What brings on disobedience?

Genes are sequences of nucleotides that God uses for all living things.

Hence, you can't compare sin with genes. They're in different categories.

I didn't say that sins are genes, I said that there is a genetic predisposition to sin. The sin nature has to come from somewhere. It doesn't just suddenly "come upon" people.

"Therefore, it must be something which we all possess from birth, not acquire at some later stage of development."

-We're born into sin. We're born with genes. But you can't say sin is encoded into genes.

Why not?

"I asked you above if you are a Christian. Could you please respond to that?"

-I'll respond by saying I believe that Jesus, the Son of God, died for our sins and He's the only way to heaven.

Good enough for me.

[hepatocyte]

Sin is a spiritual matter brought on by disobedience.

What brings on disobedience?

Genes are sequences of nucleotides that God uses for all living things.

Hence, you can't compare sin with genes. They're in different categories.

I didn't say that sins are genes, I said that there is a genetic predisposition to sin. The sin nature has to come from somewhere. It doesn't just suddenly "come upon" people.

"Therefore, it must be something which we all possess from birth, not acquire at some later stage of development."

-We're born into sin. We're born with genes. But you can't say sin is encoded into genes.

Why not?

"I asked you above if you are a Christian. Could you please respond to that?"

-I'll respond by saying I believe that Jesus, the Son of God, died for our sins and He's the only way to heaven.

Good enough for me.

Because genes code for RNA/protein. And RNA/protein cannot be sinful.

If genes code for sin, then when do those genes get expressed? And how do the translated proteins result in a sinful nature? How can a protein be inherently sinful?

Sin is a spiritual concept - genes did not cause Adam and Eve to disobey God.

[Ovedya]

Because genes code for RNA/protein. And RNA/protein cannot be sinful.

If genes code for sin, then when do those genes get expressed? And how do the translated proteins result in a sinful nature? How can a protein be inherently sinful?

Sin is a spiritual concept - genes did not cause Adam and Eve to disobey God.

Science has identified a gene for aggression. So.....RNA/protein cannot be aggressive?

Genes did not cause Adam and Eve to be sinful, but sin was infused into them through their having partaken of the wrong tree. Sin is inherent in our nature. It is a part of our make up.

[hepatocyte]

Because genes code for RNA/protein. And RNA/protein cannot be sinful.

If genes code for sin, then when do those genes get expressed? And how do the translated proteins result in a sinful nature? How can a protein be inherently sinful?

Sin is a spiritual concept - genes did not cause Adam and Eve to disobey God.

Science has identified a gene for aggression. So.....RNA/protein cannot be aggressive?

Genes did not cause Adam and Eve to be sinful, but sin was infused into them through their having partaken of the wrong tree. Sin is inherent in our nature. It is a part of our make up.

If you contend that there is a sin gene, then it must be constitutively expressed. Sin came to mankind because Adam and Even had free will and decided to forget what God said and give in to temptation after prodding by the serpent. There was no disobedience gene that made them disobey God's command. If we used genetic engineering to knock-down this hypothetical gene, then we can be sinless? No, sin is a spiritual concept.

Is there a goodness gene? No, sinning and being righteous are products of free will.

The gene is associated with aggression - there is no proof that is causes aggression. And no, sequences of nucleotides or amino acids cannot be sinful or aggressive.

[Ovedya]

Because genes code for RNA/protein. And RNA/protein cannot be sinful.

If genes code for sin, then when do those genes get expressed? And how do the translated proteins result in a sinful nature? How can a protein be inherently sinful?

Sin is a spiritual concept - genes did not cause Adam and Eve to disobey God.

Science has identified a gene for aggression. So.....RNA/protein cannot be aggressive?

Genes did not cause Adam and Eve to be sinful, but sin was infused into them through their having partaken of the wrong tree. Sin is inherent in our nature. It is a part of our make up.

If you contend that there is a sin gene, then it must be constitutively expressed. Sin came to mankind because Adam and Even had free will and decided to forget what God said and give in to temptation after prodding by the serpent. There was no disobedience gene that made them disobey God's command. If we used genetic engineering to knock-down this hypothetical gene, then we can be sinless? No, sin is a spiritual concept.

Is there a goodness gene? No, sinning and being righteous are products of free will.

The gene is associated with aggression - there is no proof that is causes aggression. And no, sequences of nucleotides or amino acids cannot be sinful or aggressive.

You are assuming that my argument necessitates Adam and Eve first having that genetic predisposition to sin. Not so. Such would have violated their free will. Post-Adamic humans do not have a will that is pure, this is supported by Scripture and evident in itself. Therefore humans possess an inherent nature that did not exist before the fall. Having such a genetic predisposition is the most logical explanation.

Sin cannot be strictly a spiritual "concept" since even children without spiritual guidance or instruction, sin. If sin is the "product" of free will then free will is corrupt. And therefore....not "free."

[hepatocyte]

Because genes code for RNA/protein. And RNA/protein cannot be sinful.

If genes code for sin, then when do those genes get expressed? And how do the translated proteins result in a sinful nature? How can a protein be inherently sinful?

Sin is a spiritual concept - genes did not cause Adam and Eve to disobey God.

Science has identified a gene for aggression. So.....RNA/protein cannot be aggressive?

Genes did not cause Adam and Eve to be sinful, but sin was infused into them through their having partaken of the wrong tree. Sin is inherent in our nature. It is a part of our make up.

If you contend that there is a sin gene, then it must be constitutively expressed. Sin came to mankind because Adam and Even had free will and decided to forget what God said and give in to temptation after prodding by the serpent. There was no disobedience gene that made them disobey God's command. If we used genetic engineering to knock-down this hypothetical gene, then we can be sinless? No, sin is a spiritual concept.

Is there a goodness gene? No, sinning and being righteous are products of free will.

The gene is associated with aggression - there is no proof that is causes aggression. And no, sequences of nucleotides or amino acids cannot be sinful or aggressive.

You are assuming that my argument necessitates Adam and Eve first having that genetic predisposition to sin. Not so. Such would have violated their free will. Post-Adamic humans do not have a will that is pure, this is supported by Scripture and evident in itself. Therefore humans possess an inherent nature that did not exist before the fall. Having such a genetic predisposition is the most logical explanation.

Sin cannot be strictly a spiritual "concept" since even children without spiritual guidance or instruction, sin. If sin is the "product" of free will then free will is corrupt.

We fight a spiritual battle against sin, not a physical battle.

"Having such a genetic predisposition is the most logical explanation."

- A genetic predisposition? Overexpression of a protein or temporal regulation of gene expression or disrupting a signaling pathway by aberrant gene expression or gene silencing or point mutation?

Sin cannot be explained by genes.

[Ovedya]

"Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not.

For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice.

But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

...

But I see a different law in my members, 2arring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom. 7:17-21, 23)

Also...

And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, dsects,

Envyings, bouts of drunkenness, carousings, and things like these, of which I tell you beforehand, even as I have said before, that those who practice such things will bnot 2inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5:19-21)

Clearly that it is not merely a "spiritual concept" that Paul wrote about. In Rom. 7:14 Paul contrasts the law, which is spiritual and sin, which is "fleshly." So sin cannot be merely a "spiritual concept." According to the Scriptures it is an element which lives within each human being.

I really don't care how it is worked out in genetics scientifically. I just know that it is an inherent nature in every human, which is expressed in what we call "sins," or offenses against God and man.

[hepatocyte]

"Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not.

For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice.

But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

...

But I see a different law in my members, 2arring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom. 7:17-21, 23)

Also...

And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, dsects,

Envyings, bouts of drunkenness, carousings, and things like these, of which I tell you beforehand, even as I have said before, that those who practice such things will bnot 2inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5:19-21)

Clearly that it is not merely a "spiritual concept" that Paul wrote about. In Rom. 7:14 Paul contrasts the law, which is spiritual and sin, which is "fleshly." So sin cannot be merely a "spiritual concept." According to the Scriptures it is an element which lives within each human being.

I really don't care how it is worked out in genetics scientifically. I just know that it is an inherent nature in every human, which is expressed in what we call "sins," or offenses against God and man.

The idea of morality and the ability to think cannot be explained by genes. Self-awareness cannot be explained by genes. Yet they are inherent.

I see nothing about genes in Scripture. Sounds like a man-made concept that attempts to explain the workings of the Great Fall with modern-day science. There is no evidence whatsoever. Flesh does not equal genes.

[Ovedya]

"Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not.

For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice.

But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

...

But I see a different law in my members, 2arring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom. 7:17-21, 23)

Also...

And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, dsects,

Envyings, bouts of drunkenness, carousings, and things like these, of which I tell you beforehand, even as I have said before, that those who practice such things will bnot 2inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5:19-21)

Clearly that it is not merely a "spiritual concept" that Paul wrote about. In Rom. 7:14 Paul contrasts the law, which is spiritual and sin, which is "fleshly." So sin cannot be merely a "spiritual concept." According to the Scriptures it is an element which lives within each human being.

I really don't care how it is worked out in genetics scientifically. I just know that it is an inherent nature in every human, which is expressed in what we call "sins," or offenses against God and man.

The idea of morality and the ability to think cannot be explained by genes. Self-awareness cannot be explained by genes. Yet they are inherent.

I see nothing about genes in Scripture. Sounds like a man-made concept that attempts to explain the workings of the Great Fall with modern-day science. There is no evidence whatsoever. Flesh does not equal genes.

I didn't write that flesh equaled genes. I wrote that there must be a genetic disposition to sin.

All living things follow certain laws. An apple tree produces apples because it has a nature to produce apples and not oranges. Dogs bark because they are dogs. So also the flesh lives by a certain law and acts according to that law. Romans 7 is very clear that sin is present within the flesh and lives according to its own law.

I'm saying that thereis a genetic disposition to sin. I am not trying to marry genetic science with the Biblical concept of sin.

[Guest 4seasonschat.com]

You lost me here. If you are born homosexual is this not a genetic issue?