Vashti vs. Esther

[tsth]

Have you ever looked at the marked contrasts in behavior between Vashti and Esther?

I was reading Esther again last night and just fell in love with that story all over again. What an awesome picture of hope and redemption.

I also noted something that I had not ever noticed before:

Remember how Vashti pretty much went into rebellion with the desire to have "her own" banquet? It caused such an uproar. The picture to me is one of entitlement and rebellion. It caused much dessention in the king's domain....then fast forward to Esther. After her picture of submission and preparation "for the king", and then she was given the title of queen. What was freely "given to her" without her even asking for it???

Lo and Behold:

Esther 2

12 Before a girl's turn came to go in to King Xerxes, she had to complete twelve months of beauty treatments prescribed for the women, six months with oil of myrrh and six with perfumes and cosmetics. 13 And this is how she would go to the king: Anything she wanted was given her to take with her from the harem to the king's palace. 14 In the evening she would go there and in the morning return to another part of the harem to the care of Shaashgaz, the king's eunuch who was in charge of the concubines. She would not return to the king unless he was pleased with her and summoned her by name. 15 When the turn came for Esther (the girl Mordecai had adopted, the daughter of his uncle Abihail) to go to the king, she asked for nothing other than what Hegai, the king's eunuch who was in charge of the harem, suggested. And Esther won the favor of everyone who saw her. 16 She was taken to King Xerxes in the royal residence in the tenth month, the month of Tebeth, in the seventh year of his reign. 17 Now the king was attracted to Esther more than to any of the other women, and she won his favor and approval more than any of the other virgins. So he set a royal crown on her head and made her queen instead of Vashti. 18 And the king gave a great banquet, Esther's banquet, for all his nobles and officials. He proclaimed a holiday throughout the provinces and distributed gifts with royal liberality.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[None]

Vashti was not a God-fearing Jewish woman but Esther was.

Also, we should remember, times were much different then. They lived under pagan laws and when it came to pagan laws, men did whatever they wanted with women and had however many women as they pleased, with no regards for her feelings, only their own. The king wanted Vashti to display herself in front of all of his drunk men so that they could see what a prize he had for a wife. She refused and was punished for it, to set an example to the women of that kingdom. Keep in mind, Esther saw how the queen before her was treated and she had an example of what NOT to do. Vashti was not so lucky.

Esther 1:16-18

16 Then Memucan replied in the presence of the king and the nobles, "Queen Vashti has done wrong, not only against the king but also against all the nobles and the peoples of all the provinces of King Xerxes. 17 For the queen's conduct will become known to all the women, and so they will despise their husbands and say, 'King Xerxes commanded Queen Vashti to be brought before him, but she would not come.' 18 This very day the Persian and Median women of the nobility who have heard about the queen's conduct will respond to all the king's nobles in the same way. There will be no end of disrespect and discord.

Must "keep women in their place" of meaningless, lower lifeforms and sex objects.

[tsth]

The king wanted Vashti to display herself in front of all of his drunk men so that they could see what a prize he had for a wife.

I've heard this form of teaching before, but could you please prove the above scripturally?

Because I cannot find this. It seems to be man-made doctrine and teaching, as there are no passages that make this claim.

Thanks.

(Also, this king cannot be both vile and a protector of God's people. I believe the teachings in regard to "His Wife", were scripturally appropriate. The women are not supposed to be the leaders/heads of the families....which is seemingly how Vashti was on the verge of teaching "rebellion" to the women of the nation, thus bringing discord.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[firehill]

The king wanted Vashti to display herself in front of all of his drunk men so that they could see what a prize he had for a wife.

I've heard this form of teaching before, but could you please prove the above scripturally?

Because I cannot find this. It seems to be man-made doctrine and teaching, as there are no passages that make this claim.

Thanks.

(Also, this king cannot be both vile and a protector of God's people. I believe the teachings in regard to "His Wife", were scripturally appropriate. The women are not supposed to be the leaders/heads of the families....which is seemingly how Vashti was on the verge of teaching "rebellion" to the women of the nation, thus bringing discord.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

On the seventh day, when King Xerxes was in high spirits from wine, he commanded the seven eunuchs who served him

[None]

The king wanted Vashti to display herself in front of all of his drunk men so that they could see what a prize he had for a wife.

I've heard this form of teaching before, but could you please prove the above scripturally?

Because I cannot find this. It seems to be man-made doctrine and teaching, as there are no passages that make this claim.

Thanks.

(Also, this king cannot be both vile and a protector of God's people. I believe the teachings in regard to "His Wife", were scripturally appropriate. The women are not supposed to be the leaders/heads of the families....which is seemingly how Vashti was on the verge of teaching "rebellion" to the women of the nation, thus bringing discord.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

Esther 1:4-11

4 For a full 180 days he displayed the vast wealth of his kingdom and the splendor and glory of his majesty. 5 When these days were over, the king gave a banquet, lasting seven days, in the enclosed garden of the king's palace, for all the people from the least to the greatest, who were in the citadel of Susa. 6 The garden had hangings of white and blue linen, fastened with cords of white linen and purple material to silver rings on marble pillars. There were couches of gold and silver on a mosaic pavement of porphyry, marble, mother-of-pearl and other costly stones. 7 Wine was served in goblets of gold, each one different from the other, and the royal wine was abundant, in keeping with the king's liberality. 8 By the king's command each guest was allowed to drink in his own way, for the king instructed all the wine stewards to serve each man what he wished.

9 Queen Vashti also gave a banquet for the women in the royal palace of King Xerxes.

10 On the seventh day, when King Xerxes was in high spirits from wine, he commanded the seven eunuchs who served him

[None]

He was drunk when he issued the order. Imagine if that were common practice. Men displaying their wives to other men.

I'm not going to assume the perverted stretch here, but we ARE talking about pagan men who held absolutely no regard for the proper treatment of women. It would be speculation to think the worst but it wouldn't be surprising if the worst were true, in which case, I don't blame her one bit for refusing.

Also, this "protector" of the Jews, until Esther came alone and pleaded their case before Him, signed an order to DESTROY all Jews. Because of his love for his gorgeous wife, he spared them. Had it not been for her and persuasive beauty, he would have heartlessly killed them all for nothing more than a profit.

Fortunately for Esther and all the Jews, the king was not a bright guy. Had it not been for Vashti's replacement, that wicked king would have happily and drunkenly killed all of those Jews with just a signature(he DID sign it, you know, they were gonners). That isn't to say that if God wanted to save the Jews another way, without Esther being there, He wouldn't have been able to: remember the "writing on the wall" during Belshazzar's feast, and his sudden death afterwards?

Esther was blessed for God to have used her the way He did, given the horrible conditions she had to endure.

[firehill]

He was drunk when he issued the order. Imagine if that were common practice. Men displaying their wives to other men.

I'm not going to assume the perverted stretch here,

'On the seventh day, when King Xerxes was in high spirits from wine, he commanded'

I'm taking the 'was in high spirits from wine' as having had enough to alter his sobriety. Maybe he was just buzzed. In any case it was the wine that affected him to make such an order.

[None]

7 Wine was served in goblets of gold, each one different from the other, and the royal wine was abundant, in keeping with the king's liberality.

I won't presume he was drunk.

Here is the beauty of the way God tells a story and how HE reveals His Truth:

Just before the passage shows how the former queen disobeyed her husband, it elaborated on the drinking of the wine and the king's generosity with it to all of those men. Strange, that the wine held no baring in the king's mentality(?), given the way it was strategically placed before the king's command, in the listing of events, and the stress placed on the abundance of it.

[tsth]

Again, I ask, where do you come up with the "sexualized" version of this story?

I do not view this event in the same manner that you do. You need to remember that the heart of a king, is in the hand of God.

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[None]

Again, I ask, where do you come up with the "sexualized" version of this story?

I'm not going to assume the perverted stretch here, but we ARE talking about pagan men who held absolutely no regard for the proper treatment of women. It would be speculation to think the worst but it wouldn't be surprising if the worst were true, in which case, I don't blame her one bit for refusing.

I believe I made myself pretty clear when I said I wouldn't "assume" the perverted("sexualized") stretch("version") here.

Hope that is more understandable for you.

Suzanne, I could come up with a list, if I have time and you insist, of wicked kings. God does not dirty His hand on the heart of the wicked(king or no king).