Pastoral Authority

[Vickilynn]

Do you know why God sent the prophets to speak to Israel, Vickilynn?

Shalom Suzanne,

Do you know we are not living in OT Israel Suzanne? Do you know how to correctly interpret the Bible? That is reading the Scriptures in context of to WHOM they were written, By WHOM, WHEN and for WHAT REASON.

We have JESUS now, and Israel did not. We are HIS BODY and are filled with HIS SPIRIT. We are about HIS BUSINESS.

How can you even think that what the prophets spoke to Israel can be used to support your blanket condemnation of the Body of Messiah since Jesus came and gave us the Holy Spirit? This is not Biblical truth dear. Not correct Biblical interpretation.

I suggest you read some NT verses, especially the ones I posted about faith and G-d's power through His people. It might open your eyes.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

Ephesians 1

15For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, 16I do not cease to give thanks for you,remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

[tsth]

Shalom Suzanne,

No, I saw your post and replied with SCRIPTURE. I asked you to post Scripture in support of you painting the Body Of Messiah as all rotten. It just is not true. You have a very twisted view of the Church. Statistics means nothing. Why don't you read the Scriptures I posted?

You use the term "the church" as a condemnation and nothing could be further from the truth. The church is the Body of Messiah, serving Him, preaching the Gospel to every nation, every tongue, walking out His commands.

So, where is the fruit in this nation?

2 Tim 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up.

Jude 3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

(Or do you think that we will not be treated the same as the Israelites, in our disobedience?) 1 Corinthians 10 & Hebrews 3 & 4

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

So, where is the fruit in this nation?

Shalom Suzanne,

In the lives changed daily. Those being saved, delivered, sent out for ministry, those spreading the Gospel, living for Jesus! I see it. If you open your eyes, you'll see it too.

2 Tim 3:1, 2 Peter 2:1, Jude 3

And you think that ONLY applies to THIS nation and THIS time period?? Again, proper exegesis is required for proper understanding of the Scriptures.

Look you can see life anyway you want, but your dark, blanket condemnation of the Body of G-d is simply NOT Biblical truth.

I see G-d and HIS power, even if you don't.

I will pray.

[tsth]

And you continue to disregard the question I ask about America. You are blatantly ignoring what you know to be true about the moral condition of this nation, and you continue to say you do not see.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

And you continue to disregard the question I ask about America. You are blatantly ignoring what you know to be true about the moral condition of this nation, and you continue to say you do not see.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

Shalom Suzanne,

Oh now you are a MIND reader?? Sheesh. You're wrong again! I know NO such thing! Whatever.

The Bible is the truth. You paint your own picture and live in your own dark world. I choose to believe G-d, His Word, His power and serve Him within His Body.

This nation is no different than any other nation. Without G-d, man's morals are nothing. You blatantly refuse to accept that G-d is G-d!

Believe what you want, I'll believe the Bible. Addios!

[Openly Curious]

A ? for all who can give a biblacal anwser from N.T. on should Churches today have only one pastor or more than one pastor ruling in congragations of 25 or more?

Hello Eddie B,

I think you raise a very good question. The needs of a congregation are important to the Lord for He cares deeply for His children and don't want to see them do without as each one has specific needs. A pastor after the Lord's heart will be sensitive to this I believe.

I think the counsel that Jethro in the book of Exodus 18:7-9, 13-27 that he gave unto his son-in-law who happened to be Moses is helpful to give any pastor insight on this matter. I think that a pastor should know his own limitations and physical capacity in what he can physically handle. Sometimes I think that pastors bear a lot of quiet burdens others do not see out of their concern for the sheep of God's pastors and I think the word gives counsel to help ease those burdens if it is applied and set in order as needed in the body of Christ. I think that as the harder matters where left up to Moses so shall it be in the congregation the harder matters should be left up to the pastor of the church as God has gifted his ordained leader over the church.

Exodus 18:22--"And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every "great" matter they shall bring unto thee, but every "small" matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the "burden" with thee."

As you can see that the people helped in bearing the burdens and needs of God's people and it relieved Moses as he did follow the counsel of his father-in-law. It also shows that the harder things (greater matters) was left up to Moses God's chosen leader and the "smaller matters" were for what I'll call the understudies if that is proper term in other words under shepherds or elders, deacons, bishops and such as they are set in place to help oversee the flock of God in order that the needs can be meet effiecently.

I think that it is important to train the congregation to do the work of the ministry so they will be able to be used in these ways and fill these positions. But I think that it is also important for the pastors to recognize the elders in the flock who have been in the flock or local church for a very long while as they can be invaluable to give them insight and help in the congregation that they have been placed over.

I read some material once that said that for every 100 believers you should have one pastor because they can't handle the needs of more than that many at a time. I don't altogether agree with that but it does give an idea somewhat I think into what you are asking about in your OP.

Sometimes I think that a pastor believes he is totally responsible for everything no matter how small or large the congregation is and the counsel of God is not adhered unto because they don't know any better and usually these type churches are very disgruntled.

OC

[Eddie B]

A ? for all who can give a biblacal anwser from N.T. on should Churches today have only one pastor or more than one pastor ruling in congragations of 25 or more?

Hello Eddie B,

I think you raise a very good question. The needs of a congregation are important to the Lord for He cares deeply for His children and don't want to see them do without as each one has specific needs. A pastor after the Lord's heart will be sensitive to this I believe.

I think the counsel that Jethro in the book of Exodus 18:7-9, 13-27 that he gave unto his son-in-law who happened to be Moses is helpful to give any pastor insight on this matter. I think that a pastor should know his own limitations and physical capacity in what he can physically handle. Sometimes I think that pastors bear a lot of quiet burdens others do not see out of their concern for the sheep of God's pastors and I think the word gives counsel to help ease those burdens if it is applied and set in order as needed in the body of Christ. I think that as the harder matters where left up to Moses so shall it be in the congregation the harder matters should be left up to the pastor of the church as God has gifted his ordained leader over the church.

Exodus 18:22--"And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every "great" matter they shall bring unto thee, but every "small" matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the "burden" with thee."

As you can see that the people helped in bearing the burdens and needs of God's people and it relieved Moses as he did follow the counsel of his father-in-law. It also shows that the harder things (greater matters) was left up to Moses God's chosen leader and the "smaller matters" were for what I'll call the understudies if that is proper term in other words under shepherds or elders, deacons, bishops and such as they are set in place to help oversee the flock of God in order that the needs can be meet effiecently.

I think that it is important to train the congregation to do the work of the ministry so they will be able to be used in these ways and fill these positions. But I think that it is also important for the pastors to recognize the elders in the flock who have been in the flock or local church for a very long while as they can be invaluable to give them insight and help in the congregation that they have been placed over.

I read some material once that said that for every 100 believers you should have one pastor because they can't handle the needs of more than that many at a time. I don't altogether agree with that but it does give an idea somewhat I think into what you are asking about in your OP.

Sometimes I think that a pastor believes he is totally responsible for everything no matter how small or large the congregation is and the counsel of God is not adhered unto because they don't know any better and usually these type churches are very disgruntled.

OC

HELLO OPENLY CURIOUS,

THANKS FOR YOUR HONEST, SINCERE ANWSER, I SENSED IT CAME FROM A CARING HEART.

I AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT YOU SAID.I THINK MOST PASTORS REALLY CARE FOR THEIR PEOPLE AND WANT TO DO RIGHT BY THEM, BUT FOR SOME REASON THEY WANT TO BE THE ONLY ONE RULING IN A CHURCH AND THEY END UP NOT BEING ABLE TO FOLLOW THE NT WAY OF EQUIPPING THE SAINTS.THEIR IS A GREAT NEED FOR SAINTS TODAY TO BE DISCIPLED ONE ON ONE BY THE PASTORS AS THE APOSTLE PAUL DID.