Kenna Frye Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/01/1984 Share Posted July 22, 2007 The seven years of Tribulation, Is it biblical? How many of you have heard of the seven years of tribulation? Many churches embrace this theory that teaches when Jesus returns and takes the righteous away, the rest of the people are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 22, 2007 It's about time someone pointed out some things which are obvious to those who look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chin Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1950 Share Posted July 22, 2007 The seven years of Tribulation, Is it biblical? How many of you have heard of the seven years of tribulation? Many churches embrace this theory that teaches when Jesus returns and takes the righteous away, the rest of the people are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnow Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 80 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 Ah, Preterism. I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the following Scriptures, as they specifically deal with some of the points raised, so your interpretation of them will help clarify your perspective. Acts 1:6-11 NIV So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Zechariah 14:1-9 ESV Behold, a day is coming for the LORD, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light. and half of them to On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter. And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one. Matthew 24:36-39 NASB But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 2 Peter 3:5-13 ESV For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 NIV We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Revelation 20:1-11 NASB Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. Isaiah 65:17-25 NKJV For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them. It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenna Frye Posted July 23, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/01/1984 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 I don't know how long the tribulation would be, but I know for sure it is not going to be seven years....My guess would be that it would last about two weeks at the most, I mean literally two weeks. If you think about what the plagues will do to the human body and without water? Come on? Then you are scorched with fire and then in freezing temperatures form the darkness.....Do you honestly think that anyone is going to be ready to fight by the time the 6th plague comes, Armageddon? I believe Armageddon is going to be something huge, not by human control. No tanks, or planes or war-like stuff.....I believe there will be war between angels and fallen angels just as it was in heaven at the fall of Lucifer. I am just going with common sense and I really don't think that God is going to be concerned with such petty things as tanks and planes in a supposed "World War 3." Satan is the author of confusion and he has misled many to writing books on deception (John Hagee and others....) Anyway, those are my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenna Frye Posted July 23, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/01/1984 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 To Minnow.....I think that you may need to read my other message called Natural Israel vs. Spiritual Israel......Here is the link Israel vs. Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnow Posted July 24, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 80 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2007 To Minnow.....I think that you may need to read my other message called Natural Israel vs. Spiritual Israel......Here is the link Israel vs. Israel Sorry, I don't buy into Replacement Theology - this is rebutted in Romans 11. Now some thoughts for you to consider... Had you considered just why it is that the Jews still do not accept Christ as the Messiah - why they do not believe that Christ has fulfilled the role? Perhaps if you knew the significance of terms such as Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David, then you would understand how those in Messianic circles rationalise the uncompleted aspects of the expected Davidic reign on earth. Perhaps then you would understand just why the disciples came to Him after his resurrection (Acts 1) and asked if the kingdom was to be restored to Israel - a nation at that time under Roman (secular) occupation. Preterism, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, requires a secret or invisible return of Christ to support its doctrine, and yet Scripture says exactly the opposite - that every eye shall see - it will be open and unmistakeable. Then you might come to understand why the second coming has not happened yet, and why when Christ does return, that it is at that time when the Jews will recognise Him as fulfilling the requirements of the expected Messiah. Paul warned about the teachings of Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Timothy 2; "Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some." (NIV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenna Frye Posted July 24, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/01/1984 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 To Cobalt.....Show me the scriptures in which both John and Daniel say that the tribulation will last for seven years. I know that you will not find them, so tell me the scriptures that you will take out of context.... To minnow, That is most certainly not replacement theology......apparently you don't read the message, but anyway.....I also have written a message about the Secret Rapture lie, so tell me how my theology has to have a lie in it in order to stand as truth? Jesus Christ is not going to revolve his second coming around the nation that did not receive him. The Jews can be grafted back into this whole picture....That is why it is a spiritual Israel and not the literal nation. Jesus Christ revolves his second coming around those who seek him desperately.....Jew or Gentile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 24, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2007 I don't know how long the tribulation would be, but I know for sure it is not going to be seven years....My guess would be that it would last about two weeks at the most, I mean literally two weeks. If you think about what the plagues will do to the human body and without water? Come on? Then you are scorched with fire and then in freezing temperatures form the darkness.....Do you honestly think that anyone is going to be ready to fight by the time the 6th plague comes, Armageddon? I believe Armageddon is going to be something huge, not by human control. No tanks, or planes or war-like stuff.....I believe there will be war between angels and fallen angels just as it was in heaven at the fall of Lucifer. I am just going with common sense and I really don't think that God is going to be concerned with such petty things as tanks and planes in a supposed "World War 3." Satan is the author of confusion and he has misled many to writing books on deception (John Hagee and others....) Anyway, those are my thoughts. You know for sure? Even the Apostles didn't know for sure, my friend. Revelations clearly states that the battle of Armageddon will involve all the nations. So, unless you've written your own Bible, your interpretation is way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chin Posted July 24, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1950 Share Posted July 24, 2007 could someone tell me when the believers are judged? during or after the tribulation? and when does the rapture occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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