Baptism?

[Nebuchadnezza10]

shiloh357, where do new testement teachers say that baptism is not for salvation?

1 Peter 3:21 the Bible says:

"And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you (not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357, where do new testement teachers say that baptism is not for salvation

?

go back and read my post. I did not say that they taught baptism is not for salvation, but rather, I said that they did not teach that water immersion is necessary for baptism. Baptism is done by the Holy Spirit, water immersion is symbolic of that.

[stevehut]

Godrulz,

This is why I asked about the Pentecostal Evangel:

http://ag.org/pentecostal-evangel/articles...nominations.cfm

This is a direct quote from the article:

"If you are searching for a good church home, here are a few questions to ask that will help you find a church that fits your needs:

1. Is the doctrine and belief of the church orthodox (true to the Bible

[stevehut]

Even the apostles could have been mistaken about anything they said as well.

[godrulz]

Godrulz,

This is why I asked about the Pentecostal Evangel:

http://ag.org/pentecostal-evangel/articles...nominations.cfm

This is a direct quote from the article:

"If you are searching for a good church home, here are a few questions to ask that will help you find a church that fits your needs:

1. Is the doctrine and belief of the church orthodox (true to the Bible

[stevehut]

Look it up, Godrulz. Council of Nicea in 325 AD. At this point in history, only one type of baptism was recognized - baptism by immersion in water. Again, that is simply what the Greek "baptidzo" means. Every Christian writer of that era said this.

Of course, this is not scripture. But it was the prevailing opinion of the day, and the creed was written with that understanding. And the Assemblies of God has accepted it. If they accepted it without understanding the historical context...well, that's another story.

As for faith and repentance? We all know that the Bible requires these things before getting baptized. Anyone who tries to baptize people without these requirements (and many churches do!) is nuts. Yes, you heard me - nuts.

[stevehut]

Can you show me in history, any christian teacher before the 16th century who said that baptism was not part of the salvation process? Really, I'd like to know...

Ok, I have some for you: Paul, James, Peter, John, Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke

Shiloh,

I almost missed this post from you.

As far as I can tell, the only people on this list who attempted to define the meaning of baptism were Paul and Peter. (And of course Jesus, but he didn't write any books.)

Where exactly did James, John, Jude, Matthew, Mark, and Luke express any doctrine about the meaning of baptism? Maybe I've missed it.

[1ptr29citizen]

Ok, I don't think some people are seeing where shiloh and others are coming from on their views of baptism. They believe baptism is necessary, they just don't belive it's in water, so let's not dbate anymore about is baptism necessary for savlation, because it's obvious it is. The question is, is it something physical as well as spiritual, or something that just spiritually happens?

Calamity, you asked about Acts 10. It's been explained several times throughout the thread, so if you want something more in depth than what I'm about to say, just look back over the thread. But here is the basic: God poured out his Holy Spirit onto the Gentiles to show Peter that God loved the Gentiles too, and wanted the Gentiles to be saved. Peter had a problem with favoring Jews, as apparent from Galatians, so God wanted to show Peter that He was willing to save the Gentiles as well as the Jews. So once the gifts of the Holy Spirit were poured upon the people at Cornelius' house, Peter then baptized them. So when the Holy Spirit was poured upon the people, and Peter then realized the Gentiles needed to be saved too, what did Peter do? He baptized them. He didn't identify them. He baptized them IN WATER. It says in water, it's straight from the last paragraph of the story.

There is ONE baptism, correct? I mean, if you wanna argue, read Ephesians 4. There is only ONE baptism, and that is an inarguable point, because that comes straight from the God-inspired pen of Paul. So if baptism in water is a symbolic thing you do after your baptized in Christ, isn't that TWO baptisms? Wouldn't that be sinful, to make TWO baptisms? Yes, because God said there is to be ONE. And that ONE is in Christ. So why were people baptized in water? Because when you're baptized in water, that's when you're baptized in Christ. Same time. One baptism.

The point steve is trying to make isn't so much that "the earlier beliefs are the better beliefs." Those earlier beliefs are non-Biblical, and so that shouldn't be depended upon like the Bible should. But EVERYONE was in agreement that baptism was in water, for 1500 years. Why? Because it was understood, that the word baptism means in water. From the time the gospel was preached by the apostles, until Zwingli messed a lot up, baptism literally meant IN WATER. If someone decided to change the meaning of God's words 1500 years later, that doesn't exactly make it accurate either. Earlier might not be for sure more correct, but later is DEFINATELY more incorrect. God wouldn't change his plan of salvation 1500 years after he iniciated it by the sacrafice of his precious Son.

[stevehut]

There is ONE baptism, correct? I mean, if you wanna argue, read Ephesians 4. There is only ONE baptism, and that is an inarguable point, because that comes straight from the God-inspired pen of Paul. So if baptism in water is a symbolic thing you do after your baptized in Christ, isn't that TWO baptisms?

Earlier might not be for sure more correct, but later is DEFINATELY more incorrect.

Thanks, Peter.

Yes, it appears to me in the Bible that there is only supposed to be one type of baptism.

And just in case you haven't seen my other discussion about the altar call, you just made a compelling argument against the altar call. If it began so long after the time of the apostles, it must be questioned.

[Guest tiggr]

Here are most of the scriptures that deal with baptism in the Bible some of these include the word water so to argue that water baptism is not important is to reject the bible isnt it ?

2 Cor 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

KJV

here is more than two or three

In Water

Matt 3:16

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

KJV

Mark 1:5

5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

KJV

John 3:23

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

KJV

Acts 8:36-39

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

KJV

Acts 10:47-48

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

KJV

Acts 2:38

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

KJV

Acts 2:41

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

KJV

Acts 18:8

8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

KJV

Acts 8:15-16

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

KJV

Acts 10:47-48

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

KJV

Acts 19:3-6

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

KJV

Acts 22:16

16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

KJV

By the way whats up with the " christian" attitude here ? just because some one is new to this board doesnt mean they are new to living for God. Newbies, know it alls ? If any one came here just to see what we " christians " talk about they would not be very impressed would they? can we not discuss with out the attitude ?

2 Tim 2:24-26

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

KJV