Does the Koran teach violence on non-muslims.

[CellShade]

This was pulled from :

http://www.dianedew.com/islam.htm

"Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4).

"Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60).

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73).

"slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34).

"for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22)

"Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (Koran 8:37)

The Koran instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5). "Fight against those who believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who... refuse allegiance to the True Faith from among those who have received the Book, until they humbly pay tribute out of hand." (Koran 9:29) Note: These verses distinguish between warfare against pagans, and against Jews and Christians.[17]

"...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191); "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5); "murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123).

"Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)

Allah himself is really the one slaying them:

"It is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself." (Koran 8:17; cp. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)

Allah "will punish them by our hands..." (Koran 9:14).

Jihad is mandatory.

"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (Koran 9:38-39).

"And what is the matter with you that you do not fight in the cause of Allah and for those weak, ill treated and oppressed among men, women and children whose only cry is; 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors..." (Surah An-Nisa 4:75)

"Believers, when you encounter the armies of the infidels do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons, or to join another band he shall incur the wrath of Allah and Hell shall be his home: an evil fate." (Koran 8:12-17)

Whats your take on this. If your muslim and you follow the koran then you must believe in violence on the non-muslim.

Jedi-diah

The bible is just as bloody. Have you ever read the Qu'ran? If not than your taking those out of context and they could be reffering to anything.

Oh I find it funny, that you refer to the quran as being take out of context.

Some quick stuff.

Anti christian writters tend to take Bible verses out of context, pointing to violence, without paying attention, to what the Chapter or story was referring to.

On the other hand, the same anti christian writters, tend to quote out of context, verses in the quran, which makes it look as if islam was a religion of love and peace, they however, leave out the other versesof it which,iswhat is pretty much described in the whole quran, "kill all infidels" .

If you don'tbelieve me, check it out yourself though, I wouldn't read stuff that is nothing more than garage, aka, the quran.

God Bless

[MorningGlory]

You are "allowed" to do that, yes. But if everyone made up their own definitions for words, such as religion, you would find it very difficult to communicate your ideas, much less debate them. If instead I wanted the word cult to mean "pillow fight," I would certainly be within my rights as an American citizen, but trying to convince me of your opinion would prove to be quite frustrating because everybody knows Islam is not a pillow fight. You seem to disdain political correctness while embracing a separate aspect of the postmodernist mindset: literary deconstructionism.

Some of us think for ourselves. Literary deconstructionism, indeed.

Don't I have the right to make up my own definition of "patronize?"

Yes

Methodist actually. lol. And I couldn't care less whether Islam is considered a cult, a religion, or both, as you would know if you had payed any attention at all to my bazillion posts saying so. I have a question for you, glory: do you believe there is such a thing as a "false religion?" and, if so, why do you find it so unsettling that Islam is considered one?

Yes, there is such a thing as a false religion. I don't find islam being considered one unsettling in the least and, if you don't care one way or the other, why are you belaboring the point?

Of course, you are entitled to your own opinions. But if we are going to debate the issue, then you had better put forth an argument that makes sense to someone other than yourself. You are terribly closed-minded, glory. If our commonsense arguments won't change your mind about something as utterly pointless as the question, "Is Islam a cult or simply a false religion?", then I suspect your mind is incapable of change. *sigh*

You can suspect anything that appeals to you and, as you don't know me, calling me close minded is presumptuous on your part. Your 'common sense arguments' are yet to materialize.

You're making up your own definitions again. And who says Muhammad was a madman? He was a brilliant military strategist.

No, in this case I am forming my definitions on my reading of the Qu'ran. I won't argue that, if the recording of Mohammad's military exploits are true, he wasn't a great strategist; I will still assert that he was a madman. You simply need to read the islamic 'holy book' for yourself.

She has been speaking for herself. I was investigating what appeared to be a personal attack on her faith coming from you. By claiming that "it is a big deal... to a Christian" that Christianity not be thought of as a cult, it sounded like you were implying that Iryssa must not be a follower of Christ. Is that not what you were inferring?

You were investigating? Are you a mod? I don't know where you came up with the above statement but you need to rethink it.

[ohnomelon]

You are "allowed" to do that, yes. But if everyone made up their own definitions for words, such as religion, you would find it very difficult to communicate your ideas, much less debate them. If instead I wanted the word cult to mean "pillow fight," I would certainly be within my rights as an American citizen, but trying to convince me of your opinion would prove to be quite frustrating because everybody knows Islam is not a pillow fight. You seem to disdain political correctness while embracing a separate aspect of the postmodernist mindset: literary deconstructionism.

Some of us think for ourselves. Literary deconstructionism, indeed.

Either you can look up what "literary desconstructionism" really is, or you can make up a bogus, glory2000-customized meaning for the term - whatever suits your fancy. You are picking apart words and redefining them to suit your own deformed arguments. That is why, while some might agree with your conclusions, no one can follow your reasoning.

Don't I have the right to make up my own definition of "patronize?"

Yes

Well, I don't care what Webster says because I want patronize to mean "have fun jumping on a trampoline." Understand where I'm coming from? Let me use another example because that one didn't seem to faze you (since you're just too darn smart for the likes of me). Do I have the right to make up my own, unique definition for the word, "salvation?" Can I give the Scriptures new, legitimate meaning this way... and use my literary creations in argument against the claims of people who hold to the orthodox definition?

Methodist actually. lol. And I couldn't care less whether Islam is considered a cult, a religion, or both, as you would know if you had payed any attention at all to my bazillion posts saying so. I have a question for you, glory: do you believe there is such a thing as a "false religion?" and, if so, why do you find it so unsettling that Islam is considered one?

Yes, there is such a thing as a false religion. I don't find islam being considered one unsettling in the least and, if you don't care one way or the other, why are you belaboring the point?

Just wondering since you seem so adamant that Islam be considered a cult rather than a false religion. You remarked that it is your mission to convert others to your way of thinking on this point; am I right? I'm not even going to respond to your question because I am tired of repeating myself.

Of course, you are entitled to your own opinions. But if we are going to debate the issue, then you had better put forth an argument that makes sense to someone other than yourself. You are terribly closed-minded, glory. If our commonsense arguments won't change your mind about something as utterly pointless as the question, "Is Islam a cult or simply a false religion?", then I suspect your mind is incapable of change. *sigh*

You can suspect anything that appeals to you and, as you don't know me, calling me close minded is presumptuous on your part. Your 'common sense arguments' are yet to materialize.

I don't think so. Considering you admitted to me that no argument can sway you, I don't see how you could possibly consider yourself broad-minded. This is not a conviction; it is merely an opinion. And, evidently, the term "commonsense argument" is relative to the person to whom it's addressed.

You're making up your own definitions again. And who says Muhammad was a madman? He was a brilliant military strategist.

No, in this case I am forming my definitions on my reading of the Qu'ran. I won't argue that, if the recording of Mohammad's military exploits are true, he wasn't a great strategist; I will still assert that he was a madman. You simply need to read the islamic 'holy book' for yourself.

You listed several conditions for a religious group to be considered a cult. While Islam may meet all three of your personal "prerequisites," none of them have anything to do with how a "cult" is actually defined... because you like making up your own meanings (apparently, it is too difficult for you to get your point across using standard English definitions). I have read some of Islam's holy book as a matter of fact, enough to know it's dangerous. I'm surprised to learn that you have read the Qur'an, glory2000. By "read," I trust you don't mean look up arbitrary verses about killing infidels on polemical Christian websites.

She has been speaking for herself. I was investigating what appeared to be a personal attack on her faith coming from you. By claiming that "it is a big deal... to a Christian" that Christianity not be thought of as a cult, it sounded like you were implying that Iryssa must not be a follower of Christ. Is that not what you were inferring?

You were investigating? Are you a mod? I don't know where you came up with the above statement but you need to rethink it.

It certainly sounded like you were questioning the sincerity of her faith based on an opinion that is not even doctrinal, but I'll promise to "rethink" that comment if you promise to say what you really mean... or perhaps that's wishful thinking since you make up your own meanings as it pleases you.

[Wonderboy]

Most people now-days wouldn't know the true definition of cult or religion off-hand, and possibly due to the media a 'new' definition of the word cult has come about.

Someone here gave a great description of this 'new' definition:

I think most people refer to the more acceptable beliefs systems as "Religions" and newer, smaller and more obscure religions as "Cults", but the truth of the matter they basically mean the same thing by definition.

Now with this in mind, I say Islam is not a cult but a false religion.

I base this on the fact that Allah is not the same god as the Christian God, Allah is a god that Muhammed chose out of a multitude of pagan gods before Islam was.... er... thought up.

Allah used to be a pagan moon god, hence the crescent moon symbol. And it must also be noted that some if not many of the Islamic religious practices still contain practices that Arab paganists followed before the 'the sucked out of air religion' Islam.

How about those Raelians? Bunch of kooks, now thats a cult. Mormonism too - cult. Scientology - cult.

The scariest are the one's within Christianity like those Mormon folk, fortunately you can tell the difference between Mormonism and Christianity very easily. Its those ones that run (almost) parallel to True Christianity that need us to be wide awake... oops... moving off topic

[Jedi4Yahweh]

You are "allowed" to do that, yes. But if everyone made up their own definitions for words, such as religion, you would find it very difficult to communicate your ideas, much less debate them. If instead I wanted the word cult to mean "pillow fight," I would certainly be within my rights as an American citizen, but trying to convince me of your opinion would prove to be quite frustrating because everybody knows Islam is not a pillow fight. You seem to disdain political correctness while embracing a separate aspect of the postmodernist mindset: literary deconstructionism.

Some of us think for ourselves. Literary deconstructionism, indeed.

Don't I have the right to make up my own definition of "patronize?"

Yes

Methodist actually. lol. And I couldn't care less whether Islam is considered a cult, a religion, or both, as you would know if you had payed any attention at all to my bazillion posts saying so. I have a question for you, glory: do you believe there is such a thing as a "false religion?" and, if so, why do you find it so unsettling that Islam is considered one?

Yes, there is such a thing as a false religion. I don't find Islam being considered one unsettling in the least and, if you don't care one way or the other, why are you belaboring the point?

Of course, you are entitled to your own opinions. But if we are going to debate the issue, then you had better put forth an argument that makes sense to someone other than yourself. You are terribly closed-minded, glory. If our commonsense arguments won't change your mind about something as utterly pointless as the question, "Is Islam a cult or simply a false religion?", then I suspect your mind is incapable of change. *sigh*

You can suspect anything that appeals to you and, as you don't know me, calling me close minded is presumptuous on your part. Your 'common sense arguments' are yet to materialize.

You're making up your own definitions again. And who says Muhammad was a madman? He was a brilliant military strategist.

No, in this case I am forming my definitions on my reading of the Qu'ran. I won't argue that, if the recording of Mohammad's military exploits are true, he wasn't a great strategist; I will still assert that he was a madman. You simply need to read the islamic 'holy book' for yourself.

She has been speaking for herself. I was investigating what appeared to be a personal attack on her faith coming from you. By claiming that "it is a big deal... to a Christian" that Christianity not be thought of as a cult, it sounded like you were implying that Iryssa must not be a follower of Christ. Is that not what you were inferring?

You were investigating? Are you a mod? I don't know where you came up with the above statement but you need to rethink it.

Come on....get back on subject and stop making silly pointless arguments. Islam is defined by the world as a Religion. It is not the true religion that we Christians believe but it is in fact a type of religion. Branches of major religions are considered cults. Christianity came out of Judaism and is considered by Jews as a cult. So your definition of cult and religion is based on your views and beliefs not on Noah Websters interpretation.

The world defines both Christianity and Islam as religions. So by popular understanding Islam is a religion...so now lets get back on subject.

Is Islam a religion of peace or violence?

[MorningGlory]

It certainly sounded like you were questioning the sincerity of her faith based on an opinion that is not even doctrinal, but I'll promise to "rethink" that comment if you promise to say what you really mean... or perhaps that's wishful thinking since you make up your own meanings as it pleases you.

Okay, if you insist, I'll say what I really mean. Don't try putting words in my mouth. It's malicious and juvenile. Name calling is prohibited on this board (memorize that for future reference). What you think of my opinions is immaterial; I will continue to post my OWN thoughts, without regard to your opinion of them, and will continue to speak out against islam. And, if you're tired of repeating yourself, then give everyone a break and stop doing it. Simple.

[Scarletprayers]

It certainly sounded like you were questioning the sincerity of her faith based on an opinion that is not even doctrinal, but I'll promise to "rethink" that comment if you promise to say what you really mean... or perhaps that's wishful thinking since you make up your own meanings as it pleases you.

Okay, if you insist, I'll say what I really mean. Don't try putting words in my mouth. It's malicious and juvenile. Name calling is prohibited on this board (memorize that for future reference). What you think of my opinions is immaterial; I will continue to post my OWN thoughts, without regard to your opinion of them, and will continue to speak out against islam. And, if you're tired of repeating yourself, then give everyone a break and stop doing it. Simple.

glory just start hitting the report button, the mods will take care of this.

[MorningGlory]

It certainly sounded like you were questioning the sincerity of her faith based on an opinion that is not even doctrinal, but I'll promise to "rethink" that comment if you promise to say what you really mean... or perhaps that's wishful thinking since you make up your own meanings as it pleases you.

Okay, if you insist, I'll say what I really mean. Don't try putting words in my mouth. It's malicious and juvenile. Name calling is prohibited on this board (memorize that for future reference). What you think of my opinions is immaterial; I will continue to post my OWN thoughts, without regard to your opinion of them, and will continue to speak out against islam. And, if you're tired of repeating yourself, then give everyone a break and stop doing it. Simple.

glory just start hitting the report button, the mods will take care of this.

[corriee]

http://www.timeswatch.net/bible_study_info.htm

This web page has some good information on Israel and the Muslims. There is a lot of stuff on this

page all good from what I can see, but what is on line with this post is the part toward the bottom

of the page that says

Israel1

Israel2

etc...through Israel 6. It is power point and says not recommended for those on dial up. The

photos are great.

[ohnomelon]

It certainly sounded like you were questioning the sincerity of her faith based on an opinion that is not even doctrinal, but I'll promise to "rethink" that comment if you promise to say what you really mean... or perhaps that's wishful thinking since you make up your own meanings as it pleases you.

Okay, if you insist, I'll say what I really mean. Don't try putting words in my mouth. It's malicious and juvenile. Name calling is prohibited on this board (memorize that for future reference).

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You're putting bogus meanings into words. This whole discussion has gotten out of control over basically nothing. I don't appreciate your patronizing attitude either, glory. And what names are you claiming I called you?

What you think of my opinions is immaterial; I will continue to post my OWN thoughts, without regard to your opinion of them, and will continue to speak out against islam.

First of all, don't try to make it sound like I'm trying to suppress your freedom of speech. I would LIKE you to post your own thoughts, but it would be nice for the posters with whom you vocally disagree if there were some kind of reasoning behind your opinions. That is all I am saying. Secondly, I am opposed to the terrible, false religion of Islam! How many times do I have to say that before you will listen? You have not payed any attention or given me a coherent response to to ANY of my replies in this thread. I don't know why I've been wasting energy talking to you because, even when I agree with you on something, you act suspicious of me.

And, if you're tired of repeating yourself, then give everyone a break and stop doing it. Simple.

By "everyone," I assume you mean "glory2000." And I am seriously considering it. Iryssa knew when to give up on trying to hold a civil discussion with you. She has more sense than I do.

Scarletprayers: glory just start hitting the report button, the mods will take care of this.

Exactly WHAT would she be reporting, Scarlet? I'm pretty sure that nothing I've said or done here has been against regulation. I've done a rather good job of maintaining my sanity considering how frustrated I am with this pointless discussion on the "cult status of Islam." I expected the apologetics forum to be filled with intellectual Christians debating serious issues with a sense of integrity, civility, and passion. But all I've encountered so far is passion.

Edited August 17, 2007 by ohnomelon