Natt Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 Are we ever 100% right with God. There seems to be an emphasis on Godliness in some churches, but how many people can go and say "Jesus I am a sinner please forgive me". I don't see how we can claim to be Godly men and women when all righteousness comes from God. We can obey God through the love we have for him. But is that Godliness. How do we measure Godliness? Is it on how moral we come over or how many works we do for him. Isn't that how the Pharisees measured how close someone is to God yet they were rebuked by Jesus. Isn't Godliness about our heart. God can see our heart condition but people only see the outward appearances. We can easily see when someone is sinning and judge them ungodly, but aren't we all sinning in some form or another or can we overcome sin. If so what is the point of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 Are we ever 100% right with God. There seems to be an emphasis on Godliness in some churches, but how many people can go and say "Jesus I am a sinner please forgive me". I don't see how we can claim to be Godly men and women when all righteousness comes from God. We can obey God through the love we have for him. But is that Godliness. How do we measure Godliness? Is it on how moral we come over or how many works we do for him. Isn't that how the Pharisees measured how close someone is to God yet they were rebuked by Jesus. Isn't Godliness about our heart. God can see our heart condition but people only see the outward appearances. We can easily see when someone is sinning and judge them ungodly, but aren't we all sinning in some form or another or can we overcome sin. If so what is the point of Jesus. Our being 100% right with God has nothing to do with our heart or our morality or our good works. We are 100% right with God because of Christ. When we are justified by faith alone, God views us just as he views Jesus, perfectly righteous. It simply cannot get any better than that. Our works are worthless in both obtaining or improving our relationship with God. That is the difference between Christianity and worldly religion. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2007 Are we ever 100% right with God. There seems to be an emphasis on Godliness in some churches, but how many people can go and say "Jesus I am a sinner please forgive me". I don't see how we can claim to be Godly men and women when all righteousness comes from God. We can obey God through the love we have for him. But is that Godliness. How do we measure Godliness? Is it on how moral we come over or how many works we do for him. Isn't that how the Pharisees measured how close someone is to God yet they were rebuked by Jesus. Isn't Godliness about our heart. God can see our heart condition but people only see the outward appearances. We can easily see when someone is sinning and judge them ungodly, but aren't we all sinning in some form or another or can we overcome sin. If so what is the point of Jesus. IN Christ we're right with God. Yes, all righteousness comes from God as we walk IN His ways. Obeying God outside of faith or being in Christ is not godliness. Walking with Him is godliness. Godliness cannot be measured. Can God be measured for who He is? Yes, the pharisees knew nothing of God. Godliness is about our HEART! Not all can just easily see when someone is sinning. We can overcome sin by faith and walking with God. We can walk the narrow path because of Jesus if we have faith. My heart breaks over the godlessness of this world. It's disgusting and shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Are we ever 100% right with God. There seems to be an emphasis on Godliness in some churches, but how many people can go and say "Jesus I am a sinner please forgive me". I don't see how we can claim to be Godly men and women when all righteousness comes from God. We can obey God through the love we have for him. But is that Godliness. How do we measure Godliness? Is it on how moral we come over or how many works we do for him. Isn't that how the Pharisees measured how close someone is to God yet they were rebuked by Jesus. Isn't Godliness about our heart. God can see our heart condition but people only see the outward appearances. We can easily see when someone is sinning and judge them ungodly, but aren't we all sinning in some form or another or can we overcome sin. If so what is the point of Jesus. Our being 100% right with God has nothing to do with our heart or our morality or our good works. We are 100% right with God because of Christ. When we are justified by faith alone, God views us just as he views Jesus, perfectly righteous. It simply cannot get any better than that. Our works are worthless in both obtaining or improving our relationship with God. That is the difference between Christianity and worldly religion. sw Well said St. Worm. and the other aspect of that is that within that protected place IN Christ we must die daily to our sins and seek to be Holy as Christ is Holy. Because as Natt suggested we are all sinning in some form each day. I truly doubt that anyone can get a whole 24 hours without sinning in thought or action somehow to some small degree. Yet we persevere and in our perseverance the Holy Spirit brings us to deeper walks with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkNebulaWelder Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 98 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 580 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2007 Well said St. Worm. and the other aspect of that is that within that protected place IN Christ we must die daily to our sins and seek to be Holy as Christ is Holy. Because as Natt suggested we are all sinning in some form each day. I truly doubt that anyone can get a whole 24 hours without sinning in thought or action somehow to some small degree. Yet we persevere and in our perseverance the Holy Spirit brings us to deeper walks with God. So true....this is why the book of Leviticus distinguished between willful and unwillful sin. It is human nature to sin, which is why we so desperately need the Holy Spirit within us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I guess it depends how much emphasis you put on James' teachings about Faith and Works. Yes, it is true that no amount of works will save us, or show us to be "godly" people. But on the other hand, Faith without works is dead. Good works and godly living are outward signs of our inward Faith. Do the works save us? No, of course not. However, just because someone does good works does not mean that they are godly. They may be doing these things for motives other than love for Jesus. But that is not for humans to judge. God knows the heart, and will one day judge us all on that basis. For now, all we have to go on is our perception. If we see someone praising God and carrying out good works, it appears that they are godly people, and we may comment to them that it appears that way. Whether they truly are or not is between the person and God, not between us. That's what I think the Bible says, at least. ~ Regards, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2007 I guess it depends how much emphasis you put on James' teachings about Faith and Works. Yes, it is true that no amount of works will save us, or show us to be "godly" people. But on the other hand, Faith without works is dead. Good works and godly living are outward signs of our inward Faith. Do the works save us? No, of course not. However, just because someone does good works does not mean that they are godly. They may be doing these things for motives other than love for Jesus. But that is not for humans to judge. God knows the heart, and will one day judge us all on that basis. For now, all we have to go on is our perception. If we see someone praising God and carrying out good works, it appears that they are godly people, and we may comment to them that it appears that way. Whether they truly are or not is between the person and God, not between us. That's what I think the Bible says, at least. ~ Regards, PA In my opinion this has nothing to do with the original question about how we are right with God. The gospel is the good news that we are right with God because of Jesus, not because of any good works we may do as a result of faith. Justification is not about works nor is it about perceptions. Its about being declared righteous only for Jesus' sake. That is the only way we are 100% right with God. Anything else is bad news, not good news. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttuna Posted August 12, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1947 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Many times in Scripture we read the words "in Christ." We are 100% loved by God the Father because of the sacrifice of God the Son, and putting our faith in Christ as our redeemer. As a newborn christian we grow from a child onward to maturity as we feed on His word and allow the Holy Spirit to mold us into Christlikeness. It is a journey of growth till we get a glorified body at His coming. The growth process is advanced as we "seek" His will, and not our own. We will fail at times, but God is there to pick us up. Remember, it is God in you that is of any value. So, we haven't arrived to the 100% in ourselves, but "in Christ" we are 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2007 Are we ever 100% right with God. There seems to be an emphasis on Godliness in some churches, but how many people can go and say "Jesus I am a sinner please forgive me". I don't see how we can claim to be Godly men and women when all righteousness comes from God. We can obey God through the love we have for him. But is that Godliness. How do we measure Godliness? Is it on how moral we come over or how many works we do for him. Isn't that how the Pharisees measured how close someone is to God yet they were rebuked by Jesus. Isn't Godliness about our heart. God can see our heart condition but people only see the outward appearances. We can easily see when someone is sinning and judge them ungodly, but aren't we all sinning in some form or another or can we overcome sin. If so what is the point of Jesus. It depends in which sense you are asking the question. From a "justification" perspective, the answer is yes. From a sanctification perspective, the answer would be not in this lifetime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraught Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Are we ever 100% right with God. There seems to be an emphasis on Godliness in some churches, but how many people can go and say "Jesus I am a sinner please forgive me". I don't see how we can claim to be Godly men and women when all righteousness comes from God. We can obey God through the love we have for him. But is that Godliness. How do we measure Godliness? Is it on how moral we come over or how many works we do for him. Isn't that how the Pharisees measured how close someone is to God yet they were rebuked by Jesus. Isn't Godliness about our heart. God can see our heart condition but people only see the outward appearances. We can easily see when someone is sinning and judge them ungodly, but aren't we all sinning in some form or another or can we overcome sin. If so what is the point of Jesus. Assuming, by 'we' you mean followers of Christ, I see us as absolutely being 100% right with God. I have faith that if I die in the next few seconds, I will experience the same salvation as the one who has walked with God for the last 100 years and the one who has just now confessed the Lord. (I confess I still sometimes have to put down that little fear of not being Godly enough, with the help of Jesus I look forward to the day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts