Scriptures Vital!

[tsth]

I too believe that "ALL Scripture IS profitable"! And I agree fully that the Truth of the Word is NEVER subject to change." And I agree that progressive revelation means that we are progressively given increasing understanding of Truth as time progresses. Is scripture "tainted"? Could various aspects of scripture be in error or not reflect clearly the Truth? I don't know; I'm wrestling through this myself. I do know that my and your understanding / interpretation of scripture can certainly be wrong. Thankfully we have the Holy Spirit to lead us into and teach us all Truth; and salvation is not dependent upon having perfect theology, but upon the goodness and forgiveness of God in Christ Jesus!

Dear Sherman,

How can you stand on your statement that all Scripture IS profitable, if you're not even sure that it is Truth?

If you believe that the Lord God can resurrect a dead body, SURELY He can keep ONE BOOK, thru time and translation.........if not, then we've got a problem with the WHOLE THING. If we begin to doubt what we heard in the first place, then what is left? Surely The Lord is faithful!

James 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

James 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

1 Peter 1:24 For, "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." 25 And this is the word that was preached to you.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

1 John 2:24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Sherman]

I too believe that "ALL Scripture IS profitable"! And I agree fully that the Truth of the Word is NEVER subject to change." And I agree that progressive revelation means that we are progressively given increasing understanding of Truth as time progresses. Is scripture "tainted"? Could various aspects of scripture be in error or not reflect clearly the Truth? I don't know; I'm wrestling through this myself. I do know that my and your understanding / interpretation of scripture can certainly be wrong. Thankfully we have the Holy Spirit to lead us into and teach us all Truth; and salvation is not dependent upon having perfect theology, but upon the goodness and forgiveness of God in Christ Jesus!

Dear Sherman,

How can you stand on your statement that all Scripture IS profitable, if you're not even sure that it is Truth?

If you believe that the Lord God can resurrect a dead body, SURELY He can keep ONE BOOK, thru time and translation.........if not, then we've got a problem with the WHOLE THING. If we begin to doubt what we heard in the first place, then what is left? Surely The Lord is faithful!

James 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

James 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

1 Peter 1:24 For, "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." 25 And this is the word that was preached to you.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Dear Suzanne,

I really can feel and appreciate your motherly concern, thanks. And I am absolutely sure the Scripture contains the perfect revealed Truth of God. But is every word perfect, exactly what God wanted to say and how He wanted to say it, I'm not sure. Even Peter speaks of some of the things that Paul wrote being hard to understand. Also, concerning God keeping ONE BOOK absolutely perfect, or creating ONE BOOK as being absolutely perfect, I'm not sure that this is what God intended. Did God stop revealing Himself at the close of the cannon? Or does He continue to reveal Himself to this day? I accept the Bible as God's perfect revelation in, to, and through imperfect mankind. And apart from Jesus Himself, the absolute perfect revelation of God in the flesh, the Bible is the best sourse of revelation that we have. How much of it is "tainted" by the limited understanding of the writers and how much did God superimpose His will on the writing of the Word? That's what I'm wrestling through. But even so, I believe that the Lord is faithful even though scripture as we know it might be "tainted" or even incomplete. That's why our personal and corporate relationship with God is so very important. He leads us into increasing Truth, like slavery being evil. It's really very challenging, the inspiration of scripture that is.

Hungry for righteousness,

Sherman

[Trusting Jesus]

God's word is perfect. Keep in mind, too, that the Scripture referred to in the New Testament is actually what we call the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the foundation and tells us why we need a Savior. In Genesis, God tells us that He created everything and that man's disobedience caused sin and death to enter the world. The following books give us the Law - a very cumbersome set of rules which are impossible to keep. Again, that is why we need a Savior. The prophets, the kings, the struggles of the Jewish people...it all builds the foundation for why we need Jesus.

In the orgininal language the Scripture is inerrent. The Hebrew letters are also numbers. Each word adds up to a precise number, and each page also addus up to a precise number. When the Scripture was copied, the letters, words, and pages were all added up. If it totaled the wrong number, the page was thrown away. This has kept Scripture pure. When it is translated into another language, say English, there are times when the exact meaning is hard to get across. I really like studying the Bible with a Hebrew & Greek dictionary. Quite often I get a deeper more powerful meaning when I see what the intent of the words are. That is why it is important to select a Bible that is easily understood, but also one that has been translated from the original language....not a translation of a translation, or a paraphrase, or one persons opinion.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[Trusting Jesus]

God's word is perfect. Keep in mind, too, that the Scripture referred to in the New Testament is actually what we call the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the foundation and tells us why we need a Savior. In Genesis, God tells us that He created everything and that man's disobedience caused sin and death to enter the world. The following books give us the Law - a very cumbersome set of rules which are impossible to keep. Again, that is why we need a Savior. The prophets, the kings, the struggles of the Jewish people...it all builds the foundation for why we need Jesus.

In the orgininal language the Scripture is inerrent. The Hebrew letters are also numbers. Each word adds up to a precise number, and each page also addus up to a precise number. When the Scripture was copied, the letters, words, and pages were all added up. If it totaled the wrong number, the page was thrown away. This has kept Scripture pure. When it is translated into another language, say English, there are times when the exact meaning is hard to get across. I really like studying the Bible with a Hebrew & Greek dictionary. Quite often I get a deeper more powerful meaning when I see what the intent of the words are. That is why it is important to select a Bible that is easily understood, but also one that has been translated from the original language....not a translation of a translation, or a paraphrase, or one persons opinion.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[TM75]

The only way I can know right from wrong, true from false or wise from foolish today, is by what God has said in his written word for us today. What man thinks, says or writes is always tainted by sin in some degree as is proven over and over by the many different doctrinal positions expressed throughout the postings on this forum, as well intended they may all seem to be.

2Ti 3:16

Scripture is God-breathed, but scripture was also written by man. And as you said, "What man thinks, says or writes is always tainted by sin in some degree..." So then, is scripture tainted by sin in some degree? Not only that, but when Paul wrote 2 Tim.3.16-17, the "Scripture" he referred to was the Old Testament, so what about the New Testament as we know it. Furthermore, what about continued progressive Revelation from God? For example, we accept as truth today that "slavery" is evil; and yet, the Bible does not say that slavery is evil. In fact, scripture instructs slaves to be obedient to their masters and Paul even sent an escaped slave back to his master.

I just bring this up to instigate discussion and cause people to think. I believe that Scripture is God-breated and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, etc. In fact, this is one of my favorite verses.

Blessings,

Sherman

Shoot, well, don't agree with you here Sherman. Are you implying that Paul, (being inspired by the Holy Spirit) wrote something that was tainted? With regard to progressive revelation, it's not that the TRUTH changes with time, but merely that we have been given understanding of it as "time" progresses. The Truth of the Word is NEVER subject to change, and I believe ALL Scripture, IS profitable.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I too believe that "ALL Scripture IS profitable"! And I agree fully that the Truth of the Word is NEVER subject to change." And I agree that progressive revelation means that we are progressively given increasing understanding of Truth as time progresses. Is scripture "tainted"? Could various aspects of scripture be in error or not reflect clearly the Truth? I don't know; I'm wrestling through this myself. I do know that my and your understanding / interpretation of scripture can certainly be wrong. Thankfully we have the Holy Spirit to lead us into and teach us all Truth; and salvation is not dependent upon having perfect theology, but upon the goodness and forgiveness of God in Christ Jesus!

Blessings,

Sherman

Actually we should not wrest with the scriptures as the unlearned and unstable do, but if you diligently compare the 1537 O.T with the King James if you read the (unprinted) edition at faithofgod.net and download it, ye may be amazed at the corruptions ye see, and wonder if some verses are profitable at all, particually Isaiah. An example to go along with the line between salvation overuse in the King James to hide the saving health of Iesus Christ. (The I is found in 1611 K.J as well)

Amend the scriptures well and ye have an easy reading Tyndale in print like in previous times you can excite people to flee the worshipping of idols, and to get them to realize their false witness, these keep the commandments.

Isaiah30:28

His breath like a vehement flood of water, which goeth up to the throat. That he may take away the people, which have turned themselves unto vanity, and the bridle of error, that lieth in other folks chaws.

30:29

But ye shall sing, as the use is in the night of the holy solempnite. Ye shall rejoice from your heart, as they that come with the pipe, when they go up to the mount of the LORD, unto the rock of Israel.

30:30

The LORD also shall set up the power of his voice, and declare his terrible arm, with his angry countenance, yea and the flame of the consuming fire, with earthquake, tempest of wind, and hailstones

Try Salvation in Psalm 85:7,9 also in addition to at least Ps 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

Ps 95:1 ((An exhortation to the earnest praisinge of God.)) O COME let us praise the LORD, let us heartily rejoice in the strength of our salvation.

Ps 96:2 Sing unto the LORD, and praise his name, be telling of his salvation from day to day.

Saving health should not be looked at as corrupt but where as thou wilt be whole of thy plague.

Psalm 18:35 Thou hast given me the defense of thy health, thy right hand upholdeth me, and thy loving correction maketh me great.

Ps 18:46 The LORD liveth: and blessed be my helper, praised be the God of my health.

Ps 20:5 We will rejoice in thy health, and triumph in the name of the LORD our God: the LORD performe all thy petitions.

Ps 21:1 ((To the Chanter, a Psalm of David)) LORD, how joyful is the king in thy strength? O how exceedingly glad is he of thy saving health?

I have used the scripture to your profit that you be a drinker from the unbridled well of life, God's word, as uncorrupt as it can get under wretched men, like Tyndale and Rogers whom is Matthew. Understand the suffering that goes with those who reform and to go beyond and see how Paul sees sorrow.

2 Cor 7:10 For ye sorrowed godly: so that in nothing were ye hurt by us. For godly sorrow causeth repentance unto health, not to be repented of: when worldly sorrow causeth death.

7:11

Behold what diligence this godly sorrow that ye took hath wrought in you: yea it caused you to clear yourselves. It caused indignation, it caused fear, it caused desire, it caused a fervent mind, it caused punishment. For in all things ye have shewed yourselves that ye were clear in that business

Reformation found in the Psalms amen to the Lord, tell me if this steers ye clear of men's doctrines and deceitful vanity

[Eddie B]

The only way I can know right from wrong, true from false or wise from foolish today, is by what God has said in his written word for us today. What man thinks, says or writes is always tainted by sin in some degree as is proven over and over by the many different doctrinal positions expressed throughout the postings on this forum, as well intended they may all seem to be.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

Scripture is God-breathed, but scripture was also written by man. And as you said, "What man thinks, says or writes is always tainted by sin in some degree..." So then, is scripture tainted by sin in some degree? Not only that, but when Paul wrote 2 Tim.3.16-17, the "Scripture" he referred to was the Old Testament, so what about the New Testament as we know it. Furthermore, what about continued progressive Revelation from God? For example, we accept as truth today that "slavery" is evil; and yet, the Bible does not say that slavery is evil. In fact, scripture instructs slaves to be obedient to their masters and Paul even sent an escaped slave back to his master.

I just bring this up to instigate discussion and cause people to think. I believe that Scripture is God-breated and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, etc. In fact, this is one of my favorite verses.

Blessings,

Sherman

I get your point.

I know that Gods word is from God only because I live by faith in what God says, and it works for me.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

Act 26:18 in order to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the authority of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me

Rom 5:2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice on the hope of the glory of God

2Co 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight;

[Eddie B]

You either by faith believe Gods word is God-breathed and preserved forever or you have not faith to believe it.

Ro 14:23 - `Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.' If I cannot by faith take the Bible in my hand and say this is the preserved Word of God, then it is sin. If we do not approach the study of how we got our Bible from the standpoint of faith, then it is sin. If I cannot believe what God says about the preservation of His Word, then I cannot believe what He says about its inspiration either-all is sin."

Ps 12:6-7 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

Ps 100:5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations." Ps 100:5

Isa 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

[Fraught]

. . . And I am absolutely sure the Scripture contains the perfect revealed Truth of God. But is every word perfect, exactly what God wanted to say and how He wanted to say it, I'm not sure. Even Peter speaks of some of the things that Paul wrote being hard to understand. Also, concerning God keeping ONE BOOK absolutely perfect, or creating ONE BOOK as being absolutely perfect, I'm not sure that this is what God intended. Did God stop revealing Himself at the close of the cannon? Or does He continue to reveal Himself to this day? I accept the Bible as God's perfect revelation in, to, and through imperfect mankind. And apart from Jesus Himself, the absolute perfect revelation of God in the flesh, the Bible is the best sourse of revelation that we have. How much of it is "tainted" by the limited understanding of the writers and how much did God superimpose His will on the writing of the Word? That's what I'm wrestling through. But even so, I believe that the Lord is faithful even though scripture as we know it might be "tainted" or even incomplete. That's why our personal and corporate relationship with God is so very important. He leads us into increasing Truth, like slavery being evil. It's really very challenging, the inspiration of scripture that is.

no more wrestling, sherman - the issue of slavery is easily resolved. there was slavery, there is slavery and there will always be slavery (at least in this present world order). we believe slavery to be wrong; nevertheless, it exists and in many forms. if you think about it, this may actually reinforce the perfection of scripture because wouldn't you think that 200 years since the civil war, all slavery would have been abolished by now? but no, it isn't. anyway, something to think about.

-condensed your quote-