Prophesied destruction of Damascus imminent?

[Massorite]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

In 2 Thess. 2:3 the bible talks about the "falling away" and the word "falling" is used to speak of a "departure from the faith". I have heard Jack Van Impy state on his show that the word "falling" in that verse is speaking of "falling up" which is a very false teaching and a lie. Jack Van Impy teaches that which suits his beliefs and not what the bible says. Does he know the bible? Yes! In fact he knows the bible so well that he can manipulate it and one would never know the difference unless one studies what Mr Jack teaches. He is a pre-trib believer and 2 Thess. 2:3 alone contradicts the pre-trib concept because it says that the "day of Christ (resurrection day) will not come except there be a falling away FIRST and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition". I wouldn't take any of what he says to be real scriptural fact unless I did the research and found that he was actually telling the truth. Besides haven't you ever noticed that Jack Van Impy has never participated in any of the multiple prophecy experts, prophecy conferences. All of the rest of these guys have conferences together and talk to each other but not with Mr Jack. He and his wife are in a league all by himself.

By the way. That is a good point about seeing through a glass darkly.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Massorite

[hr.jr.]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

In 2 Thess. 2:3 the bible talks about the "falling away" and the word "falling" is used to speak of a "departure from the faith". I have heard Jack Van Impy state on his show that the word "falling" in that verse is speaking of "falling up" which is a very false teaching and a lie. Jack Van Impy teaches that which suits his beliefs and not what the bible says. Does he know the bible? Yes! In fact he knows the bible so well that he can manipulate it and one would never know the difference unless one studies what Mr Jack teaches. He is a pre-trib believer and 2 Thess. 2:3 alone contradicts the pre-trib concept because it says that the "day of Christ (resurrection day) will not come except there be a falling away FIRST and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition". I wouldn't take any of what he says to be real scriptural fact unless I did the research and found that he was actually telling the truth. Besides haven't you ever noticed that Jack Van Impy has never participated in any of the multiple prophecy experts, prophecy conferences. All of the rest of these guys have conferences together and talk to each other but not with Mr Jack. He and his wife are in a league all by himself.

By the way. That is a good point about seeing through a glass darkly.

All that I have heard, Impe has never said that Russia will not Attack Israel. In fact, he has gone into great detail about how "rosh" will attack Israel. All evangelical prophecy scholars I can think of agree on this point.

All the evangelical prophecy scholas that come to mind are also are pre-trib, so that kind of puts you on an Island by yourself; if we use your standards.

2 Thes 2:3 does not refer to resurrection day. The day of the Lord is the Day of His revealing, judgment, and desolation of His enemies. It shall not come until the revelaing of the man of sin and the falling away; that stands to reason.

This verse is not even remotely referring to the rapture, it refers to the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is not the Rapture (catching away) of the church.

[hr.jr.]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

In 2 Thess. 2:3 the bible talks about the "falling away" and the word "falling" is used to speak of a "departure from the faith". I have heard Jack Van Impy state on his show that the word "falling" in that verse is speaking of "falling up" which is a very false teaching and a lie. Jack Van Impy teaches that which suits his beliefs and not what the bible says. Does he know the bible? Yes! In fact he knows the bible so well that he can manipulate it and one would never know the difference unless one studies what Mr Jack teaches. He is a pre-trib believer and 2 Thess. 2:3 alone contradicts the pre-trib concept because it says that the "day of Christ (resurrection day) will not come except there be a falling away FIRST and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition". I wouldn't take any of what he says to be real scriptural fact unless I did the research and found that he was actually telling the truth. Besides haven't you ever noticed that Jack Van Impy has never participated in any of the multiple prophecy experts, prophecy conferences. All of the rest of these guys have conferences together and talk to each other but not with Mr Jack. He and his wife are in a league all by himself.

By the way. That is a good point about seeing through a glass darkly.

Impe is not the only one who believes that the falling of the way is the Catching up. It is a widely held belief among Evangelicals. From the Greek text, you can not discount that interpretation. The english translation "falling away" is literally incorrect. The literal translation could be great departure, it could be great apostasy, it could be great rebellion. There the problem lies. The Greek experts can not even decide the correct translation of the verse. If we can not absolutely know what the verse says, how can we concretely know what it means. What we do know is that "falling" should be no where in the translation.

[OneLight]

Impe is not the only one who believes that the falling of the way is the Catching up. It is a widely held belief among Evangelicals. From the Greek text, you can not discount that interpretation. The english translation "falling away" is literally incorrect. The literal translation could be great departure, it could be great apostasy, it could be great rebellion. There the problem lies. The Greek experts can not even decide the correct translation of the verse. If we can not absolutely know what the verse says, how can we concretely know what it means. What we do know is that "falling" should be no where in the translation.

hr.jr., Are you saying that the Bible is incorrect because you can not understand what it says???

" In 2 Thess. 2:3 the word, apostasia, does not refer to the genuine Christians who depart from the faith, but mere professors who, without divine grace, succumb to the Satanic deception of the Antichrist." This is from Zodhiates The Complete Word Dictionary New Testament.

This is not the rapture. It is a whole lot of so called believers falling away from the faith.

*** EDIT ***

OK .. I just read your previous post where you agree to what I said above. Sorry for jumping too soon.

Edited September 25, 2007 by OneLight

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

the Scriptures are very clear about Damascus being destroyed.

This from Jack Van Impe's September 2007 "Intelligence BRIEFING" [received this yesterday]:"(Judgment is coming on Iran and Syria. Isaiah 17:1 has yet to be fulfilled...)". From my understanding, both Jack and Hal Lindsey are teaching the same message.

Maybe Jack has received a special understanding from The Holy Spirit on Syria being part of the Ezekiel Gog/Magog alignment?

So far I haven't been shown explicitly where in The Word of God Syria fits into this and when{ in terms of a chronological Endtime sequence and not an actual date}. Jack has taught and defined 3 wars leading to Armageddon and the nations involved. Don't see Syria/[or Damascus] mentioned in either Ezekiel 38/39 nor Psalm 83.

But we all know that The Holy Spirit is THE Teacher.

[Massorite]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

In 2 Thess. 2:3 the bible talks about the "falling away" and the word "falling" is used to speak of a "departure from the faith". I have heard Jack Van Impy state on his show that the word "falling" in that verse is speaking of "falling up" which is a very false teaching and a lie. Jack Van Impy teaches that which suits his beliefs and not what the bible says. Does he know the bible? Yes! In fact he knows the bible so well that he can manipulate it and one would never know the difference unless one studies what Mr Jack teaches. He is a pre-trib believer and 2 Thess. 2:3 alone contradicts the pre-trib concept because it says that the "day of Christ (resurrection day) will not come except there be a falling away FIRST and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition". I wouldn't take any of what he says to be real scriptural fact unless I did the research and found that he was actually telling the truth. Besides haven't you ever noticed that Jack Van Impy has never participated in any of the multiple prophecy experts, prophecy conferences. All of the rest of these guys have conferences together and talk to each other but not with Mr Jack. He and his wife are in a league all by himself.

By the way. That is a good point about seeing through a glass darkly.

All that I have heard, Impe has never said that Russia will not Attack Israel. In fact, he has gone into great detail about how "rosh" will attack Israel. All evangelical prophecy scholars I can think of agree on this point.

All the evangelical prophecy scholas that come to mind are also are pre-trib, so that kind of puts you on an Island by yourself; if we use your standards.

2 Thes 2:3 does not refer to resurrection day. The day of the Lord is the Day of His revealing, judgment, and desolation of His enemies. It shall not come until the revealing of the man of sin and the falling away; that stands to reason.

This verse is not even remotely referring to the rapture, it refers to the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is not the Rapture (catching away) of the church.

There is no doubt scripturally that Russia will attack Israel. But the discussion was about how Jack Van Impy was teaching that Syria would alien themselves with Russia. Neither Damascus or Syria or spoken of in Chapter 38 or 39 of the book of Ezekiel. Nor is Damascus or Syria spoken of anywhere in the book of Revelation. The reason is because Damascus will be destroyed before Russia ever attacks Israel. Read chapter 17 of the book of Isaiah. It tells of the complete destruction of Damascus over night (verse 14) which has never happened as of this moment. Now if Mr Jack is teaching that Syria will alien it's self with Russia and attack Israel, and there is no scriptural proof or like in this case the bible tell us that something altogether different or contradictory. Then Mr Jack is a teacher of false biblical facts which makes him a liar who is working for satan.

Prove that I am wrong scripturally. The first verse one says "Now we beseech you brethren BY THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST and our GATHERING TOGETHER unto him". As you can see verse 1 is speaking about when Jesus gathers us unto him which only happens on Resurrection day. In verse 2 the bible speaks of the "day of Christ" and according to the Thayers Greek English Lexicon the "day of Christ" in this verse is speaking of the last day of the present age "the day in which Christ will return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment and perfect his kingdom". The final judgement here is for the saints because they will never be judged again.

You are correct about "the day of the Lord" as in "the day of God" but you are wrong about "the day of Christ". Just as it is done in Jewish custom, the bridegroom will come with his entourage (the angels who will harvest us), receive us (His Bride) and take us with Him to be presented as an acceptable gift unto His Father. Now since verse one is speaking of the return of Christ, since verse 2 is speaking of the day that Christ returns and verse 3 is again speaking of "that day" again. We know that verse three is speaking about the Resurrection day/ the return of Christ who is our Lord.

All of the pre-trib believers including Mr Jack claim that verses 4-8 happen before verses 1-3 but there is no scriptural proof of that time frame anywhere in the bible. And the only way to prove the pre-trib concept is to come up with something to contradict what verses 1-3 say. I.E. by twisting scripture

Here are a few more facts that are not written anywhere in the bible. The words "seven years of tribulation". If there are going to be seven years of tribulation when does the wrath of God take place? There is no scriptural proof that the 144,000 will go anywhere except in Israel. There is no scriptural proof that the "Restrainer" spoken of in 2 Thess 2:6 & 7 is the church. There is however scriptural proof that the "Restrainer" is Michel the Arch angel who stands up for the people of God daily.

Without scriptural proof that these pre-trib characteristics in the bible. The pre-trib teaching is a false teaching and a lie. It doesn't matter what all of the so called prophecy experts say or teach. The only thing that matters is what is in the bible and what is not written in the bible.

Besides most all of the prophets in the old testament were in a league of their own. If researching scripture properly without using someone else's teachings, beliefs, commentaries or opinions puts me in a league or on an island of my own, who cares. As long as God is watching that is all that I care about. If it is not written in the word of God it is not.

Now forget about all those other guys. Show me some reliable, research able scripture that proves me wrong.Just because all of those other guys say it do not mean it is true. The leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world says that the holocaust didn't happen but that is not true is it?

Edited September 26, 2007 by Massorite

[OneLight]

ajesuschrist_mathetes, it can be found in Isaiah.

Isaiah 17:1

Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city,

And it will be a ruinous heap.

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

ajesuschrist_mathetes, it can be found in Isaiah.

Isaiah 17:1

Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city,

And it will be a ruinous heap.

Re post # 16-please rethink your words about Jack Van Impe and The Word of God {Galatians 6:1-2 for example}.

Yes, this chain started with Isaiah 17:1 being pointed out. As far as I understand from The Word of God [try to factor out current events for the moment] Damascus ceasing to be a city:

1. Has nothing to do about the rest of Syria.

2. Syria, as I tried to explain in my post #15, does not [as far as I know] appear in Ezekiel 38/39 nor Psalm 83, the "usual Scriptures" re Gog/Magog. Please review Ezekiel 38 carefully re Israel's status spoken of. Much of that status does not, to me, agree with Israel's current status. Consider carefully what Revelation states regarding what happens AFTER the "little season" in Revelation 20.

3. Maybe The Holy Spirit has given Jack special insight-maybe not. {e.g. John 16:12-15}

4. Just because something does not appear explicitly in The Word of God does not mean it is not so. It means, to me, we should be cautious and always look to The Holy Spirit, being "swift to hear, slow to speak" and not accusers of the brethren nor slanderers for Satan. Always in the whole armour of God-Ephesians 6:10-18 and remembering what the state of THE Jesus Christ's Church as defined by Ephesians 4:11- requires.

5. MASSIVE DECEPTION exists. MASSIVE. <---this is my spiritual judgment ...but remember "let God be true but every man a liar "

6. A judgment prophecy such as Isaiah 17:1 MAY be conditional as many prophecies are, depending on repentence or lack therof.

Agape, Peace, Truth, Grace... to all,

Ron...

[Fraught]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

In 2 Thess. 2:3 the bible talks about the "falling away" and the word "falling" is used to speak of a "departure from the faith". I have heard Jack Van Impy state on his show that the word "falling" in that verse is speaking of "falling up" which is a very false teaching and a lie. Jack Van Impy teaches that which suits his beliefs and not what the bible says. Does he know the bible? Yes! In fact he knows the bible so well that he can manipulate it and one would never know the difference unless one studies what Mr Jack teaches. He is a pre-trib believer and 2 Thess. 2:3 alone contradicts the pre-trib concept because it says that the "day of Christ (resurrection day) will not come except there be a falling away FIRST and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition". I wouldn't take any of what he says to be real scriptural fact unless I did the research and found that he was actually telling the truth. Besides haven't you ever noticed that Jack Van Impy has never participated in any of the multiple prophecy experts, prophecy conferences. All of the rest of these guys have conferences together and talk to each other but not with Mr Jack. He and his wife are in a league all by himself.

By the way. That is a good point about seeing through a glass darkly.

All that I have heard, Impe has never said that Russia will not Attack Israel. In fact, he has gone into great detail about how "rosh" will attack Israel. All evangelical prophecy scholars I can think of agree on this point.

All the evangelical prophecy scholas that come to mind are also are pre-trib, so that kind of puts you on an Island by yourself; if we use your standards.

2 Thes 2:3 does not refer to resurrection day. The day of the Lord is the Day of His revealing, judgment, and desolation of His enemies. It shall not come until the revelaing of the man of sin and the falling away; that stands to reason.

This verse is not even remotely referring to the rapture, it refers to the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is not the Rapture (catching away) of the church.

may i just interject about evangelical prophecy scholars - they are not all pre-trib and there are plenty of us laymen who are also not. so maybe we're a little larger than an island.

[Massorite]

On "Jack Van Impe Presents" this morning Jack mentioned that Syria aligns with Russia {Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38-} and he mentioned Isaiah 17:1. This struck me as being somewhat different than Hal Lindsey's view given in post #1. Jack has taught over and over about the alignment of nations -soon - with poor Israel being the focus and the -soon- return of Jesus to Rapture us out.

On the "McCloughlin Group" this morning they spent about 15 minutes or so discussing Iran's nuclear program and thoughts about accepting a nuclear-armed Iran or a neocon first-strike [that could set off a very bad thing]. Even though John Mclaughlin and Pat Buchanan are ex-Jesuits I don't recall anyone on the show ever mentioning Bible prophecy.

Appears to me that world events and Endtime prophecy are more and more coinciding. But "we see through a glass darkly".

In 2 Thess. 2:3 the bible talks about the "falling away" and the word "falling" is used to speak of a "departure from the faith". I have heard Jack Van Impy state on his show that the word "falling" in that verse is speaking of "falling up" which is a very false teaching and a lie. Jack Van Impy teaches that which suits his beliefs and not what the bible says. Does he know the bible? Yes! In fact he knows the bible so well that he can manipulate it and one would never know the difference unless one studies what Mr Jack teaches. He is a pre-trib believer and 2 Thess. 2:3 alone contradicts the pre-trib concept because it says that the "day of Christ (resurrection day) will not come except there be a falling away FIRST and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition". I wouldn't take any of what he says to be real scriptural fact unless I did the research and found that he was actually telling the truth. Besides haven't you ever noticed that Jack Van Impy has never participated in any of the multiple prophecy experts, prophecy conferences. All of the rest of these guys have conferences together and talk to each other but not with Mr Jack. He and his wife are in a league all by himself.

By the way. That is a good point about seeing through a glass darkly.

All that I have heard, Impe has never said that Russia will not Attack Israel. In fact, he has gone into great detail about how "rosh" will attack Israel. All evangelical prophecy scholars I can think of agree on this point.

All the evangelical prophecy scholas that come to mind are also are pre-trib, so that kind of puts you on an Island by yourself; if we use your standards.

2 Thes 2:3 does not refer to resurrection day. The day of the Lord is the Day of His revealing, judgment, and desolation of His enemies. It shall not come until the revelaing of the man of sin and the falling away; that stands to reason.

This verse is not even remotely referring to the rapture, it refers to the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is not the Rapture (catching away) of the church.

may i just interject about evangelical prophecy scholars - they are not all pre-trib and there are plenty of us laymen who are also not. so maybe we're a little larger than an island.

Thankyou Fraught. I needed that.