Unscriptural Hymnals In Worship

[nebula]

And yet the even some of the titles of thses hymnals are addressing the Holy Spirit alone thus glorifying Him alone.

So, poor in spirit, are you saying that it is a sin to even talk to the Holy Spirit? He is in us, but we cannot fellowship with Him? Is this what you are saying?

[poorinspirit]

damo1

and to your question on what you said in how i seem to listen to benny hinn you my friend have a nerve when i listen to these guys i ask the holy spirit to show me what the message is for me i do not sit on judgment on these guys i pray for them are you jelouse poor in spirit that you are not being beamed into homes all over the world

oh i even love billy graham and i even pray for him and his family

so please tel me poor in spirit have i got a saducing spirit with in me by doing a good deed like this i would like some back up to what you are saying alone to me

peace from damo

Hey damo1,

Just because alot of people praise Benny Hinn and Billy Graham... doesn't mean that is a sure sign of being in the Lord. In fact, we are given this warning when serving the Lord.

Luke 6: 26Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Now I know you made up your mind about this so I'll leave you to God. Just know that I am no better than you, and I love you as a brother, but what I have shared are warnings for you to discern by, but you have already made up your mind that you believe you are at that place where you did not take a wrong turn. I sure can't say that for I know when I have been delivered from apostasy... and Jesus did it too. Nobody else.. nor church helped. Jesus did it. So that is why I leave you to Him.

[poorinspirit]

Shalom Poor,

Your posts get stranger and stranger.

I am so concerned about you, I really am. I am praying for you to really see the truth.

Thanks. I'm praying to Jesus Christ for you too, Vickilynn.

Edited October 23, 2007 by poorinspirit

[poorinspirit]

BUT I can denounce that the Holy Spirit fell on them, because it did not say it fell on them.

Well, poor in spirit, with all due respect, you lost me where you called the Holy Spirit an "it."

Hi nebula,

Sorry. Getting tired. I have posted in this thread that the Holy Spirit is a Person. And I would refer to seducing spirits as it as it would be the only thing falling on believers that already have the Holy Spirit in them. But I can admit my mistakes in my grammar and usage of it. Sorry. And I should have also used the word "the scriptures" in place of the it also just to be clear there too.

BUT I can denounce that the Holy Spirit fell on them, because the scriptures did not say the Holy Spirit fell on them.

Better?

I thank you for showing my error as I asked Jesus to forgive me for that idle word.

Thanks for helping me state myself clearer to you, but still it is on the Lord to cause the increase.

[poorinspirit]

And yet the even some of the titles of thses hymnals are addressing the Holy Spirit alone thus glorifying Him alone.

So, poor in spirit, are you saying that it is a sin to even talk to the Holy Spirit? He is in us, but we cannot fellowship with Him? Is this what you are saying?

Yes. It is a sin because Jesus is the mediator between God and man and you dishonor Jesus by doing so... and you better believe the Holy Spirit would rather you talk to Jesus or by Jesus to the Father. We worship God IN Spirit and in truth thus the fellowship is present as He fulfills the role of the Comforter pointing us to seek the face of Jesus.

Imagine John the Baptist... the prophesied voice in the wilderness... to prepare the way of the Lord. What if John went on trying to prepare the way for the Lord even after Jesus came? He would look like an idiot after the Spirit descended like a dove on Jesus.

Matthew 3: 13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Now do note... no verbal reference to the Holy Spirit from the Father. Is He ignoring the Holy Spirit? No. Why just focus on the Son? Because the Holy Spirit descending on Jesus did so to glorify Jesus as the Father glorified Him by speaking regarding His Son.

So if the Son be glorified... what did John do? He decreased in the eyes of the public by bearing witness of Him and not of himself.

John 3: 28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease. 31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So the Holy Spirit... when He seeks to glorify Jesus Christ will not speak of himself.. for whatever He hears that He speaks... so... why speak to the Holy Spirit when He will not speak of Himself, but the words He speaks are from Jesus so.... speak to Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not going to be offended if He is leading you to do what He does.. to testify of Jesus and glorify Jesus Christ the Lord... thus pointing you to Jesus to talk to.

[damo1]

damo1

than i say this too you stop preaching to the rest of us how dare you try even what you said in your post you left for me boy you are treading on thin ground hear poor in spirit and i said you to that i know what has been done on the cross for me why do you like pushing your views on too people and state that you will leave me in gods hands poor in spirit are you praying that god shakes me up again to wear i have to seek his forgivness again

i said to you what has the holy spiirt done to you why are you so against what we hold on to and belive in every day i ask the holy spirit to help me grow and as i said you you seem to be on a sort of mission hear like god has ordained you to correct us that openly share hear on this forum i would not want to be in your shoes poor in spirit

my plee to you is this stop preaching you are not god poor in spirit you sift threw the bible and only place in your post what you want me to hear with out even pulling back and thinking for one moment are you that good of a scholar poor in spirit that you are to blind to see how foolish your words you place hear are ?

your words poor in spirit mean nothing and its as if you are just sifting and only wanting what you want to hear and as i said just because one person hear has come on your side does not mean i am going to drop what i hold so close to and see it your way

you must be so jelous of these men and women that broad cast into peoples homes to hate them so much poor in spirit i wil tell you some thing go wear you live get an old milk box and stand on this in the shopping mall near to wear you livee and see how many respond to your style of preaching if you feel that god has given you this gift to correct people go to the mall wear you are poor in spirit and preach for a week and then come back hear and tell me how many have stopped to listen to you

its not hard to do i even do this hear wear i live and sevral have given their hearts to the lord some times i just sit near the court house on a court day and i wil be led to talk to a young youth that has come out of court and i have just sat and listend and threw gods holy spirit i have been able to get the ones i talk to to say the sinners prayer

this is why i am putting up the challange poor in spirit as too me you seem to fit in too those groups that i stated you must be a morman or a jahova wittness or seven day adventist as this sort of talk only comes from one of these groups poor in spirit and i have had sevral tel me to my face that i am an evil person when i speak the truth of what christ did for me on the cross can you picture the blood stained cross poor in spirit can you see the two criminals that wear next to jesus and can you picture jesus in the midle of the two criminals and can you hear what one of them is saying to the other criminal when he even dared to mock the son of god while he was nailed to a cross can you think for one moment poor in spirit of the nails being driven into his hands and then a big nail into his legs and then can you hear what every one is saying to him save your self if you are the son of god save your self jesus this is what some pharisees wear even saying and what did jesus say too the criminal today you wil be in heaven with me as he forgave even a criminal who was naild to a cross

can you even picture the court yard poor in spirit wear the soldiers mocked jesus can you handle the pain jesus had to endure in his last hours being hit like that to the point to wear his own skin was torn open and then he got hit sevral more times with a cast iron whip that just tore into his skin and while this was hapening to him he did not call down his angels he did not curse the man that was hitting him jesus took every single insult that was thrown at him and then a crown of thorns was ramed so hard it dug into his own flesh and they said hail king jesus and hit him while mocking him

but i am only a simple man holy spirit who pictured what it could have been like for jesus on his last hours on this earth i sat in a cell and tears wear even running down my face poor in spirit i did not see the tv version that is played on tv but when i finished reading the bible in this cold cel i was in i just could not stop crying as it effected me so much poor in spirit

tell me poor in spirit what does the great commision mean to you

mattew 28

16 then the eleven disciples went to galiee to the mountain where jesus had told them to go

17 when they saw him they worshiped him but some doubted

18 then jesus came to them and said all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me

19 there for go and make disciples out of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit

20 and teaching them to obey everything i have commanded you and surely i am always with you always to the very end of the age

i have been even taught to obey everything that is said in gods word poor in spirit i do not sift what i want to hear and throw the rest aside i openly asked the holy spirit to open me up to the truth of gods word

so poor in spirit who that has baptized you wear you not baptized like this as i am saying this again the father the son and the holy spirit work in as a team as even jesus told his disciples to go and preach and baptize those that do give thier hearts to me in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit

other wise my friend jesus would have said something else like is this what you want to hear baptize thos that repent in the name of the father and of me and leave the holy spirit out as he is nothing

stop sifting threw gods word and only hearing what you want to hear and please do not prrach to me your way of thinking my friend as it is very unhealthy

peace from damo

so who is preaching hear to me poor in spirit is it a saducing spirit as i am just a simple man my friend

[terter]

poor in spirit, I understand the main point of what you're saying. This topic was brought up earlier by some Christian ladies I know.

[poorinspirit]

What difference does any sermon make? If a sermon was on getting a divorce is not an unforgiveable sin... does anybody discern that or do we just let that slide? If so... then the next one... committing suicide is not an unforgiveable sin. When does one stand up to correct? So a song can go astray as much as a sermon can. And just because an errant sermon or doctrine is recorded in history, one thinks none of that hersey will influence and creep its thinking into the hymnals. So yes... there is a need to even discern the hymnals as much as published doctrines.

May the Lord cause the increase for I cannot.

I don't know if you were using the two examples above, as merely examples or not, but I do know this, there is only one unforgivable sin, and it is certainly not divorce or suicide.

I never agreed with your stance, however, I took no offense with your position until you began using the phrase "pray for discernment" in every post as if you are the only one who has the right answer on this. The Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity, and we can worship Him just as much as we do God, or Christ. Asking for more of the Holy Spirit certainly does not open the door to seducing spirits. We are quite aware of what we are asking for, and quite able, through discernment, to be able to tell the difference. We are human beings and every one of us have ebbs and flows as to how much we are walking in the Spirit on any given day, depending on daily events, time spent in prayer and study, etc. Asking for more of the Holy Spirit is never a bad thing.

Hi Cobalt1958,

So tell me how that affects his Words about the new wine that has been been in old wineskins bottles? They are mentioned three times: Matthew 9:17 ; Mark 2:22; & Luke 5:37. Three witnesses.

Or how about being a new creature in Christ and thus indicative of being a new wineskin in 2 Corinthians 5:17,18 that can hold that new wine?

Or how can we be complete in Christ if there is no resting place in regards to getting more of the Holy Spirit in Colossians 2:5-10?

And as there is excess in wine in Ephesians 5:18... there is no measure given for the Holy Spirit in John 3:34 because you either have that "seal" of adoption or you don't according to the faith: 2 Corinthians 13:5 but we can rest in the promise of Jesus that we do in Ephesians 1:12-23.

What about Jesus' promise in His invitation of John 6:35 of never hungering nor thirsting?

Or say that one is heeding the scriptures about not recieving another spirit other than the one already received in 2 Corinthians 11:3,4?

So there is a danger as much talk about receiving another spirit, those that experience it has a different name for it, and supposedly led by the Spirit through the scriptures to say that this is that. How can every one say it is this or this is that over the same experience if there is One Spirit when we know there is only One Spirit, but yet we seem to need more of that One Spirit as if we are leaky bottles pertaining to being of the old wineskins? See what I mean about people trying to understand their experiences by fitting it in between the lines in Acts when I mentioned this to another poster? This is why one must go to what is plainly stated in regards to our faith instead of trying to make sense of our supernatural experiences in looking for it in Acts when the events in Acts are not explained well enough to make doctrines out of it that go against what is plainly spoken in His Words by Jesus and to the letters to the churches as instructions in the faith.

So when I say pray for discernment... it is for wisdom to understand His Words for it is by them we discern in testing the spirit (1 John 3:22- 4:6) .... and the Bible says to ask the Lord for wisdom as the disciples needed help in understanding even His parables. I ask for wisdom to discern, but the Lord led me to His Words to discern the heresey by before I had asked Him all because I was seeking... and all those that seek shall find as promised, but when one is in a routine for so long without ever questioning it through His Words, then there is a need for somebody from the outside to say to those within its heresey to pray for discernment by reading His Words for why should we be involve in something that voids His promise or the faith and all the while disregard those verses that warn about other spirits?

[poorinspirit]

Asking for more of the Holy Spirit is never a bad thing.

Basically you are asking for more of the Life of Christ.

Hi ruck1,

This is repeated somehwat from my response to Cobalt1959.

So tell me how that affects his Words about the new wine that has been been in old wineskins bottles? They are mentioned three times: Matthew 9:17 ; Mark 2:22; & Luke 5:37. Three witnesses.

Or how about being a new creature in Christ and thus indicative of being a new wineskin in 2 Corinthians 5:17,18 that can hold that new wine?

Or how can we be complete in Christ if there is no resting place in regards to getting more of the Holy Spirit in Colossians 2:5-10?

And as there is excess in wine in Ephesians 5:18... there is no measure given for the Holy Spirit in John 3:34 because you either have that "seal" of adoption or you don't according to the faith: 2 Corinthians 13:5 but we can rest in the promise of Jesus that we do in Ephesians 1:12-23.

What about Jesus' promise in His invitation of John 6:35 of never hungering nor thirsting?

Or say that one is heeding the scriptures about not recieving another spirit other than the one already received in 2 Corinthians 11:3,4?

So there is a danger as much talk about receiving another spirit, those that experience it has a different name for it, and supposedly led by the Spirit through the scriptures to say that this is that. How can every one say it is this or this is that over the same experience if there is One Spirit when we know there is only One Spirit, but yet we seem to need more of that One Spirit as if we are leaky bottles pertaining to being of the old wineskins? See what I mean about people trying to understand their experiences by fitting it in between the lines in Acts when I mentioned this to another poster? This is why one must go to what is plainly stated in regards to our faith instead of trying to make sense of our supernatural experiences in looking for it in Acts when the events in Acts are not explained well enough to make doctrines out of it that go against what is plainly spoken in His Words by Jesus and to the letters to the churches as instructions in the faith.

[poorinspirit]

damo1

than i say this too you stop preaching to the rest of us how dare you try even what you said in your post you left for me ....

You know, I think you use that "respect you" clause to hide behind so you can preach your views and I'm suppose to accept it and follow along blindly. It is not going to happen. Granted, I limited my responses to you, because you are not able to receive instructions nor willing to discern by His words. You would rather I would stop sharing His Words with you while you stick with your experiences to keep doing which is not scriptural for you to do. You would rather have the praise of men than the praise of God. What I share with you affects your pride, and I don't know how many times I have shared with you that I am nothing as I leave it to the Lord to cause the increase, but you seem to think you can attack as if I had pride in sharing in what I am sharing. I don't have any. It's all about keeping the faith in Him and His promises to us.

So know this, damo1, you are glorifying something else in His name when you put the Holy Spirit in the spotlight in your worship service because, scripturally, the REAL indwelling Holy Spirit would never lead you to do that if His role is to testify and glorify Jesus Christ. Nuff said. May God prune you soon so that you may be sound in the faith according to His Words & be ready when He appears by Jesus Christ as I pray that the Lord continues to prune me, prevent me falling, and present me faultless.

Ephesians 5: 25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So it is by the word He sanctifies us and cleanses us.... not by a supernatural experience to be felt as some would say that is what "the Holy Spirit falling on them" is doing.... a "sanctification" process or a filling, but it is not. Thus you are glorifying something else in His name & seeking that in the coming and goings of what you claim to be the Holy Spirit thus departing from the faith we have in Jesus Christ.

We have a rest in God through Christ Jesus... and you are not declaring your rest in Him when you seek after the Holy Spirit or more of Him. The Gospel is simple than what you are being involved in, but if you would rather not believe Him to rest in Him, then the Lord shall enable you sooner or later.