The Jewishness of Jesus and the Loss of the Sacred Writings

[Smalcald]

Very simply it became a faith with few Jews because very few Jews came to faith in Christ. Far more gentiles throughout the region in which Paul preached were born again through faith in Christ as Lord.

Certainly a remnant of Jews did believe in their Savior then and now, and scripture claims that in the end the nation of Israel will be saved.

I think over time and with the ascendancy of the Roman Hierarchy, particularly after the schism with the Churches in the East, the stage was set for a Europeanization of Christianity. The Protestant movement was a European movement; this movement was brought to North America by people settling in the New World, evangelicalism grew out of the Anabaptist movement, once again something that began in Switzerland and Germany. Thus today we are very far indeed from the Eastern and Jewish ethnic roots of the faith. But I think part of it is our own ethnocentric attitudes that we are oh so important, which is not a Christian view anyway, particularly given that the majority of the worlds Christians don't live in North America or Europe, but in Asia, Latin America and Africa.

As far Jesus being a Pharisee, why were the people amazed that an unlearned man, this Jesus, could teach, if Jesus was a Pharisee? Were Pharisee

[P_Joseph]

Matthew 23:1-36 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

Matthew 23

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

i for one do not think He agreed with the Pharisees at all and here is one of His reactions to someone breaking one of the Ten Commandments: John 8:3-11 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

When the Law is brought in to the picture we can start judging one another i for one want to be under Grace lets remember

Matt 23:23 23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Your Friend in Christ joe John 3:30

[whirlwind]

They told us that this small family was having a get-together and had invited them to eat. When they walked in, the father of the household immediately asked them, "Are you Christians?" and they replied, "No, but we believe Jesus is the Messiah." The man then asked them, "Are you obedient to the Torah(Law)?" They answered yes. The man then turned to the man next to him and said, "The House of Israel is finally returning, our Lord will return soon!"

The House of Israel, as you probably know, are the 10 lost tribes. They were scattered after going into captivity and some teach that they went over the Caucasus Mountains, settled in Europe and eventually went to England and then to America. (Sax-ons......Isaac's- Sons)

It is interesting that we are One Nation Under God and very, very blessed. Also when you consider some scripture it seems to point to the Christian nations being the House of Israel today.

Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those of the Jewish faith do not keep the testimony of Jesus Christ. We know God doesn't lie and He is telling us that Satan is coming for those that keep it......that has to be Christians. Who are the Christian nations of today? Where else can the House of Israel be except in those nations?

God also tells us that the two, the House of Judah and the House of Israel will be joined together again:

Ezekiel 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, anf for all the house of Israel his companions:

17.And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Something to think about.......Whirlwind

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

When the Law is brought in to the picture we can start judging one another i for one want to be under Grace lets remember

I don't think we are using the same definitions for some of the words above. Would you mind giving me your definitions for the words, "Law" and "Grace?"

[Grungekid]

Very good topic, I must say.

I want to be quick, so here goes. You say that Jesus was not directly opposed to the Pharisees, and I understand how you could come across Christians who believe that He was, but the problem was that the Pharisees of the time were not as learned as Jesus of the old scripture and even their own law, and when Jesus 'corrected' them, they didn't take it very well. The Pharisees, as people, were probably very much against Jesus, being interested in their power and influence over the people, but their law is very similar to our own, with only a few flaws that Jesus denounced, and was probably killed for.

Personally, I identify with the Jews as brothers in God's service and the sacred chosen people whom God guided Himself throughout history. They are His holy people, which, needless to say, places them high in my sight, and they were the progenitors of the Word. They were also the ones who spread His word, so that I might have what knowledge I do of the Truth. Lastly, their culture intrigues me, and I love to study it.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Grungekid

[Guest shiloh357]

As far Jesus being a Pharisee, why were the people amazed that an unlearned man, this Jesus, could teach, if Jesus was a Pharisee? Were Pharisee

[Smalcald]

As far Jesus being a Pharisee, why were the people amazed that an unlearned man, this Jesus, could teach, if Jesus was a Pharisee? Were Pharisee

[WayneB]

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

I understand your concern for the modern Christian church AND appreciate the value you place on the Seven Festivals of Messiah as described and outlined in Leviticus 23. Furthermore, I appreciate the revelations and spiritual value of the festivals and how they reveal the character and very nature of God and His plan for the redemption of His children.

BUT...I am not a Jew and according to the Council at Jerusalem as described in Acts 15, the apostles and elders considered your question and provided an answer. In that meeting, brother Peter spoke up and said, "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

There is a ancient Jewish custom that I read about whereby at one time, a special ceremony was conducted in each household on the Feast of Unleavened bread. In it, the man of the household scatters some pieces of leavened bread around the house and then the family searches for them armed with a candle, a wood spoon, a feather and a piece of linen. When a piece of leavened bread is found by the LIGHT of the candle, the man scoops the piece onto the WOOD spoon with the FEATHER and places it in the piece of LINEN. The action is repeated until all the pieces are found and then the line is wrapped up, taken to the temple and offered as a burnt offering. As believers, I am sure that we can all see the spiritual significance of this ceremony but all the ancients knew was the tradition.

My point? Speaking as a gentile believer, it is important, I believe, to understand the traditions and the festivals because they help us grow spiritually and reveal deeper truths about the God we serve BUT no, we are not expected to observe them. Think about it...how many people in the modern church celebrate Easter and Christmas but don't really grasp the deeper truths? It's just another holiday... Regardless, brother Peter summed it up beautifully when he asked, "why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?"

May the Lord Bless you richly,

wayne

Postscript: LIGHT (God's Word); WOOD (Cross of Christ); FEATHER (Holy Spirit); LINEN (burial shroud)... and LEAVENed bread symbolizes sin.

[systemstrike_7]

To summarize my question: Why has Christianity become its own religion? Why have followers of Jesus Christ become deaf to the Law that Jesus Himself was loyal to? Should we not observe the festivals that God appointed us to celebrate? Should we not observe the very Law that Jesus gave His life to protect?

I understand your concern for the modern Christian church AND appreciate the value you place on the Seven Festivals of Messiah as described and outlined in Leviticus 23. Furthermore, I appreciate the revelations and spiritual value of the festivals and how they reveal the character and very nature of God and His plan for the redemption of His children.

BUT...I am not a Jew and according to the Council at Jerusalem as described in Acts 15, the apostles and elders considered your question and provided an answer. In that meeting, brother Peter spoke up and said, "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

There is a ancient Jewish custom that I read about whereby at one time, a special ceremony was conducted in each household on the Feast of Unleavened bread. In it, the man of the household scatters some pieces of leavened bread around the house and then the family searches for them armed with a candle, a wood spoon, a feather and a piece of linen. When a piece of leavened bread is found by the LIGHT of the candle, the man scoops the piece onto the WOOD spoon with the FEATHER and places it in the piece of LINEN. The action is repeated until all the pieces are found and then the line is wrapped up, taken to the temple and offered as a burnt offering. As believers, I am sure that we can all see the spiritual significance of this ceremony but all the ancients knew was the tradition.

My point? Speaking as a gentile believer, it is important, I believe, to understand the traditions and the festivals because they help us grow spiritually and reveal deeper truths about the God we serve BUT no, we are not expected to observe them. Think about it...how many people in the modern church celebrate Easter and Christmas but don't really grasp the deeper truths? It's just another holiday... Regardless, brother Peter summed it up beautifully when he asked, "why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?"

May the Lord Bless you richly,

wayne

Postscript: LIGHT (God's Word); WOOD (Cross of Christ); FEATHER (Holy Spirit); LINEN (burial shroud)... and LEAVENed bread symbolizes sin.

In my book, Peter holds no authority over the Word of God. Yahweh tells us that these feasts are to be observed throughout the generations to come. Now, Peter's word or Yahweh's? Regardless of how arrogant we Christians have become, we are not God's Chosen People. It is our job to be grafted into the House of Israel so that we may one day be joined with the House of Judah. Jesus Christ saved us, but to follow Him means to follow Yahweh and His Torah. And don't forget who ran the church after Jesus' ascension: Jesus' brother James. And in James' epistle, he tells us that faith without WORKS is dead. By works he speaks of obedience to the Torah(Law).

But I did like that story. When I read the Torah now, I see how much it talks about Yeshua.

"Moses answered the people, 'Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the Salvation (Yeshua) the Lord will bring you today!'" Exodus 14:13

[Smalcald]

Peter's word?

No if it is in scripture it is the Word of God. The New Testament the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the fulfillment and very reason for the Old Testament, all of it leads to one place and that is the cross of Christ. The entire purpose of the Jewish people and Israel was for the revelation of Christ, and of course what could be more important!

But for example we know from Galatians that gentiles do not and should not seek circumcision to try to please God (we can certainly be circumcised for health reasons). We are also told how to think about new moons and Sabbath's and diet. Christ Himself was hated and killed for blaspheme, for claiming to be God, this very thing, this claim of the divinity of Christ, that Christ is one with God, IS God is the stumbling block laid in Zion. Of course this utterly blaspheme to a person who is practicing Judaism today as it was then, the only way it would not be blaspheme would be if it were true.