The Great Whore of the Revelation (chp 18)

[Massorite]

But what about "Egypt?" No where in the Bible is Jerusalem called Egypt. However, that the first century generation was also in an exodus. While Old Testament Israel's exodus was from the bondage of Egypt, the New Testament Israel's exodus was from the bondage of the Old Covenant Law. The most recognizable passage that depicts this "new exodus" is found in I Corinthians 10:1-11. Paul wrote, "And all these things happened to those [as] examples, and was written for our warning; to whom the ends of the ages have arrived." His contextual foundation for this statement was the Old Testament exodus from Egyptian bondage. He wrote that they had passed through the sea (verse 1). They ate manna and drank from the rock (verse's 3-4). He then relays how they wandered in the wilderness (verse 5), became idolaters (verse 7), tried the Lord and were destroyed by serpents (verse 9). This shows us that, just like the "type and shadow" of the Old Testament and their deliverance from bondage, the New Testament saints were undergoing the same exodus. The only difference was that Paul's generation was the reality to which the Old Testament example pointed.

ToniR: yes, there is a passage in the bible where God does refer to Jerusalem exactly as symbolically egypt and sodom. i cannot find it right now but i absolutely remember it because i was shocked when i read it.

You are correct Toni and there is more then just one place.

Is this what you are referring to Fraught? This was mentioned in my post #35 on page 4.

Revelation 11:8

And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The city where the two witnesses of Revelation 11:8 are killed is Jerusalem;(which is yet future) this is where our Lord Jesus was crucified. The Bible refers to Jerusalem as a "spiritual Sodom" and a "spiritual Egypt." Just speculating here, but this may mean that when this event occurs, Jerusalem will be indulging in the sin of Sodom and the sin of Egypt.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh has just about discredited everything he says here because of his mean, nasty, unchristian manner in his responses to everyone he disagrees with.

This coming from someone who has gone from thread to thread throwing the terms "devilish heresy" and satanic doctrine in the face of anyone that didn't see eye to eye with her about the rapture. In the last couple of weeks you have descended into mire of hatefulness toward several other people. You posts of late have been charactized by nothing but petty, arrogant, hatefulness toward anyone and everyone who doesn't see it your way. You have absolutely no room to talk.

What I have said in this thread has neither been mean or nasty. You simply cannnot engage the facts or points that I raise, so you whine and whine as usual.

I wish to publicly apoligize to you Katy for the times I too was led astray by his comments, thinking it was the "pro-Israel" thing to do.

You have demonstrated through the anti-Semitic material that you have posted that you are not pro-Israel, probably never were, and are more than willing to sell the Jewish people down river. I see your true colors now. You are the type of two-faced "Christian" that makes Jews distrust Christians. You fake some support for Israel, but are willing to support the notion that Israel is the evil whore of Revelation. Your behavior demonstrates that the Jewish people's distrust of Christians is not without foundation.

It is quite apparent that there are those here who show more respect for a piece of land than they do the saviour who bought them with His blood, which is nothing but idolatry.

You have it wrong. It's not the Land. It is the people. Those of us who love Israel do so unconditionally; not at the expense of the Savior, but as a result of the love He has put in our hearts for a beleagured nation of people who must continually justify their right to exist to world that would just as soon see Israel discarded into the dustbin of history.

Israel is a line drawn in the sand. I will oppose vigorously, and unrelentingly, anyone who sets themselves against Israel, whether they are a Christian or not. You have chosen to descend into posting, defending and supporting anti-Semitic material and others like KatyAnn, wallow in the misdguded doctrine of Replacement Theology. That sets us on different sides. That is fine with me. I will continue to love Israel uconditionally and will continue support Israel against her enemies. I am Israel's friend and unlike you, I don't abandon my friends, nor throw them to the wolves. I have pitched my tent in Israel's camp in obedience to my Savior, Jesus who is the God of Israel. I stand where Jesus stands and He stands with Israel. I have made my decision. You have chosen a different path, and that is your decision. You can continue to post anti-Semitic material if you want, but I will be here to oppose it and refute it in the strongest terms possible.

Heaven and earth will pass away, including the present day Jerusalem, and all of its sin, but our Lord's words will not pass away.

The seed of Israel will never pass away. The Lord has chosen Israel as His own particular treasure and the people of Israel will endure forever into eternity future.

[kari21]

Israel is a line drawn in the sand. I will oppose vigorously, and unrelentingly, anyone who sets themselves against Israel, whether they are a Christian or not. I will continue to love Israel uconditionally and will continue support Israel against her enemies. I am Israel's friend. I have pitched my tent in Israel's camp in obedience to my Savior, Jesus who is the God of Israel. I stand where Jesus stands and He stands with Israel. I have made my decision.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

I join you in your vow to support Israel! MAY THE LORD OF HOSTS BLESS ISRAEL FOREVERMORE!!!

[kari21]

Israel is a line drawn in the sand. I will oppose vigorously, and unrelentingly, anyone who sets themselves against Israel, whether they are a Christian or not. I will continue to love Israel uconditionally and will continue support Israel against her enemies. I am Israel's friend. I have pitched my tent in Israel's camp in obedience to my Savior, Jesus who is the God of Israel. I stand where Jesus stands and He stands with Israel. I have made my decision.

And likewise, I will correct those such as yourself who attempts to exault themselves and Israel against the teachings of Jesus Christ and who claims to be christian, only to draw attention to themselves, while falsely accusing others here who speak against your false teachings

You have it backwards. Jesus said And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

Not Israel and the Jews.

It's all about Jesus Christ, not Israel and the Jews.

If you lift up Jesus Christ, and if you love Jesus Christ you could not help but see this. You teach a gospel of humanism, which is a false gospel.

It's pretty simple actually. All true Christians should have a deep love for Israel in their hearts. God does, and if God is in us, we will love Israel as well. In the Bible we are told to: "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they that love thee shall prosper" (Psalm 122)

It also says: "Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion" (Psalm 129:5)

Isaiah 11:11-13 predicts that "all the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off' who oppose the restoration of Israel, "in the last days."

God said he will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse her. THAT IS A SERIOUS MATTER AS FAR AS GOD IS CONCERNED!

John Hagee was right when he wrote: "The Bible shows God as the protector and defender of Israel. Psalm 121:4 says that He never slumbers or sleeps in His watching over the nation of Israel. The prophet Zechariah said that the Jewish people are "the apple of God's eye" (2:8). Any nation that comes against Israel is, in effect, poking God in the eye-not a very wise thing to do! If God created Israel, if God defends Israel, if God considers Israel the apple of His eye, then it is logical to say that those who stand with Israel are standing with God."

Then it would be safe to say that anyone putting themself against Israel, is putting themself against God.

Good luck with that...

P.S. (I don't agree with everything that John Hagee writes, but he is right on the money on that one!)

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Israel is a line drawn in the sand. I will oppose vigorously, and unrelentingly, anyone who sets themselves against Israel, whether they are a Christian or not. I will continue to love Israel uconditionally and will continue support Israel against her enemies. I am Israel's friend. I have pitched my tent in Israel's camp in obedience to my Savior, Jesus who is the God of Israel. I stand where Jesus stands and He stands with Israel. I have made my decision.

And likewise, I will correct those such as yourself who attempts to exault themselves and Israel against the teachings of Jesus Christ and who claims to be christian, only to draw attention to themselves, while falsely accusing others here who speak against your false teachings

I have not falsely accused you. The proof is in your posting record, particularly in this thread. Like I said, your true colors have shown that you cannot be trusted.

You have it backwards. Jesus said And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

Not Israel and the Jews.

Well, anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension can tell the difference between loving the Jewish people and exalting them. Like I said, my support for Israel is in obedience to the God of Israel. I honor Him by honoring His covenant with the Jewish people. I am not exalting any group of people. I simply love them them unconditionally and seek to bless them as commanded by the Lord.

If you lift up Jesus Christ, and if you love Jesus Christ you could not help but see this. You teach a gospel of humanism, which is a false gospel.

What a crock. You evidently don't know what humanism is if you are equating loving the Jewish people to a "gospel of humanism." Your posts just get more stupid as the day goes on. Try using a dictionary before using terms you don't understand.

[kari21]

I will correct those such as yourself who attempts to exault themselves and Israel against the teachings of Jesus Christ

WRONG!

John Hagee also wrote:

"Replacement theologians teach that there is not one word in the New Testament that remotely suggests that Christians should support Israel. Wrong! Jesus Christ is our example and He personally taught us by His conduct that gentiles who support Israel have His special blessing.

In Luke, chapter seven, Jesus entered Capernaum where a certain Roman centurion (a gentile) had a servant that was about to die. When the centurion heard that Jesus was coming, he sent Jewish elders to Him, pleading for Jesus to come and heal the critically ill servant. Notice the logic the Jewish elders used with Jesus. They said, "And when they came to Jesus, they begged him earnestly, saying that the one (the centurion) was worthy, for he loves our nation (Israel) and has built us a synagogue. Then Jesus went with them ..." (Luke 7:4-6).

Does it make a difference if Christians bless the nation of Israel? The question must be asked: "Why did God select the house of Cornelius to be the first gentile house to hear the Gospel and to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?" The clear answer is recorded in the book of Acts, chapter 10. The scriptural truth is this: Jesus went to the house of this gentile and healed the servant who was near death because this gentile had blessed the nation of Israel.

Cornelius also was a Roman centurion (a gentile), living in the coastal city of Caesarea who is described in the Scripture as "a devout man and one who feared God ... and who gave alms generously to the people." Which he controlled through the Roman Army. The Scripture repeats that the reason God selected the residence of Cornelius for this great spiritual blessing was because he blessed the Jewish people. Verse 31 records, "Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God" (Acts 10:31).

Is it really important that Christians bless the nation of Israel and the Jewish people? Jehovah God told Abraham that all anti-Semites are under His curse (Genesis 12:1-3). Jesus Christ announced that all anti-Semites will come under the judgment of God during the judgment of the nations (Matt 25:31-46).

Who are these hungry, naked, thirsty, sick, imprisoned strangers of Matthew, chapter 25? They are the Jewish people of history, not the church. Jesus clarifies this with:

"And the King will answer and say unto them. 'Assuredly, I say unto you, inasmuch as you did it unto the least of these my brethren [the Jews], you did it unto me.' Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:40-41 and 46).

Is it important to be right on the Israel question? When you consider that being wrong brings you under the curse of God, it's important! Israel is not a "take it or leave it" subject. It is a life and death matter

[kari21]

John Hagee teaches a Dual Covenant Theology and does not take the Gospel to the Jews, which goes directly against the teachings of the Saviour of his very soul.

But I take it you don't have a problem with what I quoted from him.....do you?

Also....didja see my "PS" at the bottom?

Just so you know, I do love all people, including the Jewish people.

From your posts about Israel, I find that hard to believe.

God does not ever put anything or anyone above His Son Jesus Christ, even tho some here try to manipulate that too.

I don't put anything before Christ either. But I want you to remember that God put the nation of Israel before all other nations by choosing that through them, ALL the earth will be blessed!

[kari21]

It is apparent you are ignorant to John Hagee's tactics Kari:

He merchandises the Gospel of Christ

He tells the Jews of Israel one thing to keep his foot in the door,

and the Christians in America another.

He teaches a Dual Covenent Theology. There is tons of literature about him, even in Jewish circles. Do a search on Google if you really are interested in the truth. This is for starters:

From the J Post

If you want to bless Israel, give them the Gospel of Christ!! I am blessed tremendously because of it!

That is a tactic by one losing a debate. Attack the person. Let me tell you something...if Satan himself said, "Jesus is the only begotten son of God" and I needed to use that...I would quote the devil.

The truth of what I quoted from Mr. Hagee you cannot refute.

[Guest shiloh357]

In reference to John Hagee.. It is true that CUFI (Christians United For Israel) does not proseletyze. However, that does not mean that John Hagee is against giving the gospel to Jewish people. He is very open about his faith and the need for everyone, Jewish people, to recieve the gospel.

His goal through CUFI is to open the lines of communication to the Jewish people that have been severed for centuries culminating in the Holocaust.

CUFI is not evangelistic, but then there are Christian ministries in Israel that are not evangelistic and do provide some very basic services for Israel. Some of them are humanitarian ministries, like Bridges For Peace, my personal favorite. These humanitarian ministries shoulder burden that would otherwise have to be carried by the Israeli government at the taxpayer's expense. They provide food, furniture, clothing school supplies and other necessities to the poor and homeless in Israel both Jewish and Palestinian.

John Hagee is not trying to hide or keep the gospel from the Jewish people, nor does he believe that they can go to heaven without the Messiah.

What he opposes is the usual tactics of evangelism that make Jewish people feel threatened. Many Christians are not sensitive to how evangelism is perceived by the Jewish people. There nearly two thousand years of history and animosity that cannot just be swept under the rug.

[kari21]

It is apparent you are ignorant to John Hagee's tactics Kari:

He merchandises the Gospel of Christ

He tells the Jews of Israel one thing to keep his foot in the door,

and the Christians in America another.

He teaches a Dual Covenent Theology. There is tons of literature about him, even in Jewish circles. Do a search on Google if you really are interested in the truth. This is for starters:

From the J Post

If you want to bless Israel, give them the Gospel of Christ!! I am blessed tremendously because of it!

That is a tactic by one losing a debate. Attack the person. Let me tell you something...if Satan himself said, "Jesus is the only begotten son of God" and I needed to use that...I would quote the devil.

The truth of what I quoted from Mr. Hagee you cannot refute.

Hey, I really could care less about winning or losing a debate. I have presented an article with quotes from Jewish Rabbis in Israel concerning what John Hagee teaches, which I presume by your remarks, you have not even read the article from the Jerusalem Post, so it is apparent you do not want to even know the truth. Like I said, Hagee has quite a PR machine, but the Jews of Israel and in America have him pegged, and can see right through him.

Until you do, there is really nothing more I have to discuss with you.

Please don't try to direct this into a debate on John Hagee. What he said in the above quotes is Biblically sound.