Discerning Tongues Now

[vicki-aka-bebe]

I do not understand that when God says He never changes, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, yet one decides to remove the very Power from Him. You can serve your God who has no power I will serve the God who is and will never change. Paul says no such thing and you obviously missed my posts.

It sounds like a record with a needle stuck in the same place if this issue has been dealt with on other posts. If you are looking for validation of you beliefs....Give it up. I tell you to forget about it. There is one interpretation of the word of God...many different applications. The Holy Spirit has not revealed unto you certain truth yet and perhaps because you are considering us all wrong and you correct tells me you may have a unteachable problem or you are trying hard to hold onto this lie you so vehemently believe in. Either way...I love you brother and suggest giving up your quest.

AMEN AND AMEN

[poorinspirit]

To all,

The gift of tongues and "prayer language" is not seperate. There is no prayer language apart from speaking in tongues which requires an interpretor. The gifts of the Spirit are the manifestations of the Spirit, and it is written why they were given for the assembly, the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12: 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

That is the only reason the manifestation of the Spirit in regards to tongues would come. In working in the body of Christ, the assembly, it comes with an interpretor... or the one speaking is to be silent. Look at the rules for some of these gifts.

1 Corinthians 14: 26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

I would like to address the latter part of that verse 28.

Now the reason I had not took a stand on tongues before was because of reports of people interpreting. Then I found out that the ones interpreting were proven to be lying by linguists whom made recordings. These were churches that really believed they had the Biblical tongues and were interpreting them. They even invited the linguists into their midst until it was proven that the interpretors were lying.

So what is the real concern here? There is a tongue that is in the world. This tongue has crept into the christian churches by focussing on the Holy Spirit for another filling or another baptism in order to get this other tongues, BUT that is how the world got their tongues. Hinduism and voodooism are both in the spiritual realm, and linguists compared the recordings of both the world's and what churches that claim to have the Biblical tongues, but were found to be the same which is gibberish. So the rudiment is how did the christian churches got the tongues of the world? By focussing on the Holy Spirit.

What is the role of the Holy Spirit? To dwell in us as promised for all those that come to Jesus as their Saviour. That is the only way we shall know Him is by Him being in us. So the hypodrisey as well as the departure from the faith rests in seeking after another spirit or continual filling of the "Holy Spirit" in order to get this tongues. Thus one is moved away from their rest in Jesus, to go after a lie for we are complete in Christ and we are certainly not leaky vessels.

Matthew 9: 17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The promise is that once we come to and believe on Jesus, we shall never hunger nor thirst.. so how can we be seeking a continual filling of the Spirit?

John 6: 3535And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So what is at stake here is the witness of the Gospel and the keeping of the faith.

Now, if you do not speak in tongues, seek rather to prophesy, because Paul said so. Prophesy is to be sought over tongues.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

So my question is for those churches that promote another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues, why tongues? Why not prophesy? Because tongues that cannot be interpreted is just left alone, and can be expounded upon by saying it is a prayer language, thus amoy is in a church that prays in tongues with NO interpretation whatsoever.

And you know what really gets me? I had read these verses so often, that I failed to see what paul was really saying. But Paul was demanding the women not to speak as in speaking in tongues, because tongues don't come to them.

1 Corinthians 14: 34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

It was verse 36 that popped up to declare what Paul was meaning here. And it don on me that when he said that all speak in tongues... he was referring to "all" men. How can the women have tongues if they were forbidden to speak at all? Just as God spoke to Adam first, thus tongues comes to man first as the Spirit ministers the gifts to profit the body withal.

So then I hear of one lady testifying of one time speaking in tongues, and the woman was crying as she testified that she was speaking in tongues. When I heard that, that was when I just said tongues without an intepretor was not the gift of tongues. But now I wonder if the woman was crying to hide the fact that she couldn't speak in tongues and have the closeness to God the others had so she lied to cover up why she was crying. Why would I wonder that? Because of the reports from the linguists. The woman speaking in tongues may had the tongue of the world and not know it.

Then you have a woman speaking in tongues, testifying that a man was saved as he testified hearing her speaking in Italian. She goes on that she does her own interpretation. I lay out the Biblical guidelines for what is to be done in church, and all those that speak in tongues came to her defense as if it is proper and okay to interpret your own tongues. That was recently and on this forum and in this thread. Who is making what up now? To interpret your own tongues, one could mislead the whole assembly. Who would want to defend that practise? Thus those that do, just do so for the sake of defending tongues. You are not even discerning that practise at all. You let that one slide.

And the worst part is, there is this one forum where I got banned from posting anymore all because of the things they were posting as I questioned what is being shared by asking the moderators if they thought Pentecostalism was a world religion as they had classified catholicism as a world religion. Apparently, they did not like that question as they accused me of having an agenda in spite of the fact that this query developed over time and broadened into an investigation while I was in that forum. I mean, they banned all topics of catholicism from the forum, and so after several posts from members that provided links to sources to prove that tongues did not ceased buit were ongoing, I did some research on their sources online!

The evidences of tongues being ongoing as regarding the pre-history of the Pentecostal churches were from catholic priests! They were using tongues as a sign that they were the Church and as proof they were keeping the doctrines perfectly as they reprove other hereseys. What is wrong with this picture? This forum I was in kicked out catholicism as a world's religion, and I get banned for asking if they ever considered that Pentecostalism was of a world religion seeing how tongues with no interpretation was in the world... and those that defend it as ongoing were using sources to validate the Church which that forum had kicked out all topics relating to catholicism out of the forum.

So... here we are. I could say.... give leeway for tongues to be a prayer language because of that last part of that verse in 36, but that would be ignoring why all the manifestations of the Spirit were given. So I cannot say that it is okay because... I don't know how you got your tongues. I believe it is dangerous to ignore the implication of it because if the supernatural gift is seen in the world, and tongues were given to profit the body withal.. as in not a stand alone gift... AND it is given to man ... AND.. believers are to seek prophesy over tongues.....

Then believers need to ask the Lord if the tongues they got is not of the world. If you value your relationship with the Lord, you should ask Jesus if at any time you departed from faith and opened yourself up to receive another spirit just so you can speak in tongues.

I tell ya, when the unbelievers got saved in Acts, they didn't know about tongues, nor sought it. It was given for this reason alone.

1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

So when you are in a prayer closet and someone came onto you or came by and hear you, would they not think ye mad? Would the Lord use tongues outside the assembly as a stand alone gift?

1 Corinthians 14: 6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Note verse 16. If one bless with the Spirit, whom are you blessing if no one else is around? How if you pray alone is your understanding fruitful? Thus because of tongues being in the world, I would question the teaching of a prayer language that is apart from foreign languages... and ask the Lord Jesus... did I get this tongue by another way?

Those with tongues, I ask you in Christ's love, to please take this to the Lord Jesus in prayer and make sure the tongues you have is not of the world and that you were not misled by those that preached another spirit to get the tongues without interpretation by calling it a heavenly language and thus a prayer language.

And just so you know. Romans 8:26,27 of the KJV blows away the errors in the NIV.

Romans 8: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Verse 26 states with groanings which cannot be uttered, so one wonder how then does the Holy Spirit maketh intercession for us if no sound. It leads to the answer in verse 27. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, so this is a Third Person that searcheth the hearts as well as the mind of the Spirit, so this is the "he" that maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

And that he is Jesus Christ the Lord. Do note how it is written and it being the will of God.

1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Here is the NIV of Romans 8:26,27. Do note the grammarical error of verse 27 as they refer the "he" to mean "the Spirit".

Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Thus by the translation error of the NIV, believers are taking verse 26 to mean prayer language when the KJV does not infer that at all. The NIV broke with scriptures with the 1 timothy 2:5 truth that Jesis is the ONLy Mediator between God and man.. according to the will of God as He is the one that maketh intercessions for the saints. We make intercede for the saints when we pray for them, but to Jesus as Jesus is the One Mediator between us and God. So the Holy Spirit fulfills the role as the Comforter by being in us so that Jesus, Our Good Shepherd and Mediator, knows what is going on always so the KJV offers more peace in that when we do not even have time to pray, He knows... whereas the NIV steals the peace from believers because they do not have this "prayer language"... and scriptures do not do that.

If any doubt as to which is the correct translation for Romans 8:26,27, then rread this below.

John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So, I am asking... imploring all believers that speak in tongues or believe that you do, to ask Jesus in prayer in how you git tongues, because what I am seeing where I live.. no one is mustering the gift anywhere near what it was used for in the early churches and what I read online in most places do not give it verifiability that it is still ongoing today.

I mean.. ask yourself this question. If tongues being interpreted today, then why if the Bible is in the pew? There is no new revelation or doctrine or knowledge that hasn't been shared that has been shared already and written down for our edification in the faith. For all the boastings of tongues continuing, the NT has not been added any books after all those years. So what good has it been? And yet tongues are sought more than prophesying so as to edify the body withal... and by seeking another spirit to get it.

Any red flags raised yet? Do you see my concern for all those that speak in tongues yet?

All I can do is ask you to pray to Jesus for discernment by the KJV, cause, I don't see tongues continuing especially without interpretation when we have the KJV sitting with us to edify us in the knowledge of Him so that our love may abound yet more and more.

[Leonard]

"I will pray in the Spirit. And I will pray with the understanding."

Paul endorses BOTH kinds of prayer.

You spurn what God calls most precious.

[patricia1]

obviously you do not speak in tongues, it is hard to tell someone in a impovershed country what a hamburger tastes like when all they have eaten for years is rice. Until you have experienced it you should not comment on something you do not know. paul yells us that it is not only the letter of the law that is imporatant. For the letter kills but the Sprit gives life. 2nd cor 3:6 and also Our hearts are circumsized by the Spirit and not written law.

My language changes accordin not only to my needs but whatever the need of thr Father has For it is with His Holy Spirit and with His heart upon mine that He prays.. it is not I.

You dear one are trying to apply losgos to what can only be known by rhema.

And if you do speak in tongues I encourage you to got to your prayer closet and speak in it at least 5 mins. It will help build you up. patricia1

[poorinspirit]

Psalm 12

1Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

2They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

3The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

4Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

5For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

8The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

[damo1]

damo1

to poor in spirit

are you saying that you are the only true christian and those with in your church you belong to ? we have had this talk with you how is it poor in spirit that you feel their is only one jesus and that the one we all know must be what of the devil him self and we all have been led astray

i have been reading everything you have been placing in this post poor in spirit and i have also been reading what others have been sharing to you one sister hear alone said something in her post to you and yet you seem to ignore what is said to you and come against those who seek what 1 corinthians 14 talks about paul even says not to discourage no one

1 corinthians 14 new spirit filled life bible verse 39 therefor brethren desire earnestly to prophesy and do not forbid to speak with toungues

36 or did the word of god come origonally from you ? or was it only you that it reached ?

37 if anyone thinks him self to be a prophet or spiritual let him acknowledge that the things which i write

to you are the commandments of the lord

i must be hearing a diffrent gospel preached or i must have been manipulated by a false spirit or i must have did something to have some one like your self come on a forum like this and then try to tell me to repent as god has sent you or given you a vision to bring in conviction on those that read from diffrent translations and belive in everything that is said in gods word

oh i forgot i wil have to toss the new spirit filled life bible out the window and the new international version open study book out the window and also tel my x wife to get rid of my sons bible i bought him because poor in spirit is not happy with the many translations that are printed and sold threw out this world to wear many read the same words i am reading and pray to the same god i pray to and ask the same holy spirit to open them up to the truth of gods word

please tel me poor in spirit are you worried that we are being led astray because we do not all read from the kings james bible ?

as the apostle paul is saying in 1 corinthians 14 verse 37 if anyone thinks him self to be a prophet or spiritual

let him acknowledge that the things i wite to you are the commandments of god

if you can not simply state this to us hear that you have been trying to correct i am going to say this to you as it is also says this in 1 corinthians 14 verse 38 new spirit filled life bible

38 but if anyone is ignorant let him be ignorant

poor in spirit if you can not accept that god has his hands on many people around the world and if you can not accept that he does not need us and if you can not accept what has been said to you in this very topic of yours i am going to do as the apostle paul instructed the early christians and that is i wil see you as being ignorant of the warnings that are layed out in front of you

hebrews 4 new spirit filled life bible

13 and there is no creature hidden from his sight but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him

to whom we must give account

you can ignore me all you like but i wil find my self on your very topic as i have noticed many do not like to stand up for the truth and i have friends who do not like to get into biblical arguments when it comes to topics like this

poor in spirit what is it that you have against people like my self who seek nothing but the truth and ask god to give these gifts to us does this scare you or are you afraid to open your self up to the truth of gods word ?

you are going to have to learn to handle this poor in spirit as i wil not repent for no one i wil not bow down to no one i wil belive in what it says in this gospel brother more than what an ignorant person might have to say as i wil not let an ignorant person lead me to hell

i hope by what i have said shows you as a person wear i stand on this i am proud to say jesus is lord over my life and i am not ashamed to say i speak in tongues why should i be ashamed of this so brother i see you as an ignorant man who wil reap gods wrath on his own head if you keep pushing this very topic

please respond to 1 corinthians 14 verse 37 and do not pick at brother one light or patricia1 or any one else lets hear this from your own words poor in spirit if you have nothing to say and can not line this up with gods word as i said brother i wil see you as an ignorant man

god bless from damien stipic

[OneLight]

Psalm 12

1Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

2They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

3The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

4Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

5For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

8The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

This is your reply to us?

Here is my answer to you about how I see your teachings.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

OneLight

[patricia1]

Actually damo... I think he has answered me by number two in his previous post . LoL I just rebuke this demon in the name of Jesus. He may have nothing to say to me, By the power of the precious Blood of Jesus.

He really cannot answer me. I'm a woman and there is enmity there.... strong word hnh. Love Him and not the demon. patricia1

P.S. He is being true to his name anyway.

[damo1]

damo1

to poor in spirit

and i can say is this to you learn to understand the gospel of john

john 3 john the baptist exalts christ new spirit filled life bible

31 he who comes from above is above all he who is of the earth is

earthly and speaks of the earth he who comes from heaven

is above all

32 and what he has seen and heard that he testifies and no one receives

his testimony

33 he who has received his testimony has certified that god is true

34 for he whom god has sent speaks the words of god for god does not

give the spirit by measure

35 the father loves the son and has given al things into his hands

36 he who belives in the son has everlasting life and he who does not belive

the son shall not see life but the wrath of god abides on him

i love it when some one throws psalm 12 into the lions den as i see poor in spirit you might be feeling that you are in the lions den hear and every one that aply to this topic is attacking you

oh wel i know wear i wil be when my father in heaven does decide to judge the whole world and i am going to be so happy to worship in heaven with king david abraham mosses and the apostle paul and joseph and daniel and elijah and of the many other bible characters i have fallen in love with paul and king david have given me strength and when i do see jesus face to face i wil humbly say thank you for what you did for me on the cross

please poor in spirit do not insult any one hear as you wil fal flat on your face oh i wonder what other psalm you are going to throw at us

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[damo1]

Actually damo... I think he has answered me by number two in his previous post . LoL I just rebuke this demon in the name of Jesus. He may have nothing to say to me, By the power of the precious Blood of Jesus.

He relly cannot answer me. I'm a woman and there is enmity there.... strong word hnh. Love Him and not the demon. patricia1

P.S. He is being true to his name anyway.

damo1

high sister patricia1

i see its my day of so i have been hear all day on this very topic i go to work on the weekend and i am taking brendon to church with me and wil have one young boy who just got out of juvi denis is not wanted by his mother as wel as brendon so denis is going to spend christmas day with me i am going to take denis to the unitting church for christmas lunch and wil take denis to midnight mass at the anglican church it wil blow him away

dont worry sister you have me on your side my wife to be kristina has to put up with this as wel we wil all have to rebuke this man since he has given us psalm 12 and he thinks he is in the lions den

have a happy christmas and a happy new year sister

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic