What do you think?

[Hypathia]

Biblicist - That's not personal, that a position of being a subordinate.

As for the other two verses, the Bible says those things, making you feel secure, then undermines that security when with the "depart from me I never knew you" verses that describe Judgement Day. I can't not take into account actions by God in the OT, what was done to Jesus/God [his torture] actions Paul committed against people via God in the NT and descriptions of what Jesus is going to do to the population at his reture.....plus what is going to happen to people in hell for all eternity. Taking all these things into account I can't "know" where I'm going even if I beg for mercy on a daily basis. It's like picking up a hitchiker, seeing that it's Ted Bundy and believing him when he says, "Trust me I won't hurt you".

Not trying to be negative here people; just being honest. The only thing I trust is that God will do whatever He wants to each and every person regardless of whether they grovel at his feet or not. Dear God please don't strike me dead on the spot for saying all this out loud, You already know I've been thinking it.

I'm gonna have to get off now guys. This stuff is depressing, draining, and I'm getting way, way behind here at home and it's time for me to play catch up. Thanks for all your replies and attempts at comfort. I appreciate it.

[damo1]

damo1

to hypathia

it feels to me you are when you said you are not trying to be negative in the responces that we have given you have a choice and as i shared to you what happend with me was my own undoing i could have turned things around but i decided to hold on today i do not do this i do not even play around with past sins like i use to as god sees what we do in our own homes even the hidden sins we hide from those that know us

i have been their and honestly i am great full for the wake up cal i pray and when i pray i ask the holy spirit to search my heart and every time he brings things up to the surface to be dealt with i nail this to the cross and do not take it back like i use to i would say lord take this and then with in 5min i would take back the very thing i am asking jesus to deal with

you need to sit down take a deep breath and stop seeing god as a mean god who wil strike you wear you stand this is what the cathlic priests are good at doing to those who put their trust in a parish preist i use to also think like this as i was told by my grandmother who use to take me to church that god would strike me wear i stand if i said anything bad my grandmother and grandfather wear comitted to the croation orthadox cathlic church in our village in yougoslavia

i hatted going to chuch as my grandmother wanted me to be an alter boy but i wanted to be like the boys in my village i was to happy going hunting and doing what a normal boy does but i went along to keep my mothers parents happy as my grandmother also was praying for me my grandfather told me this as he passed away in 2003 and my grandmother died in 2004 my grandad told me that my grandmother use to cry in tears as she knew i had no one they took my sister in and looked after her

while i found my self living in and out of goverment youth refuges she was living a good life while i was sleeping in a run down old building using a dirty carpet for a blanket to keep me warm at night my sister was in a warm bed food every day clean clothes and had love shown to her

hear i was eating what ever i found even out of the dumpsters behind the suppermarkets i had the same clothes i slept in and would walk in the rain or sit on a gutter in kings cross and watch the world go buy with the other street kids

dont let satan rob you blind as this is what he is doing to you robbing you blind and whispering in your ear that god hates you and that he does not care

this is not who god is satan is a father of lies please as i said you need to sit down and think hard what has been said to you

when i did forgive my own father i could not say i forgive you to his face he passed away in 2003 when i was doing an emause walk with other christians

i am going to have to sit on his grave and say dad i forgive you my own step mother is also talking to me as my father was violent towards her my step mother even asked me to forgive her and today we have a very close relationship my step mother goes to church and god has put some good strong women around her

yet my own mother only talks to me when she alows me to as she is finding it hard to let go my dad was a violent man he took his anger out on my mother and on me he even raped me and i could not do a thing to prottect my self as i was week and very young

yet i do not sit on my high horse and say god i hate you for what you alowed me to go threw i openly cry out and say father i love you and i thank you for what your son did for me

dont question god like you are or you wil find out he wil one day shake you up and when he does decide to do this you wil have no wear to run

please re think what you are saying hear

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[tsth]

Dear Hypathia,

Just a few thoughts on your posts.

First, I DO understand what you're getting at in regard to "fear" of God. It is right to have "the fear of the Lord", it is the BEGINNING of wisdom. BUT, I think a correct understanding of Satan, would be to recognize that He is indeed used for "the children of pride". In other words, if there is such a thing as "free-will", and mankind is not ordered/mandated to obey God, then there has to be just outcomes for ALL of us. Good for those who obey Good/God, and Bad for those who choose to obey Satan, thus the outcome will be the just rewards that anyone deserves as right judgment in God's Eye. So, perhaps, for those who choose to follow the evil of their hearts, rather than turn to the loving Father, they will get what they have desired, and that would be what Satan is allowed to give.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

Now, the second thing I would like to comment on is, a right perspective of God, with regard to "the fear". It IS absolutely right to acknowledge God for the HOLY and AWESOME God that He IS! But, do not forget Abraham and what God Himself had to say about a man who chose to BELIEVE WHAT GOD TOLD HIM:

2Ch 20:7 - Show Context

O our God, did you not drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your friend?

Isa 41:8 - Show Context

"But you, O Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,

Jas 2:23 - Show Context

And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

It is RIGHT to FEAR GOD, and it is also right to understand that God is loving. You should not have one response to God, over the other, but rather, our response to God, should consist of BOTH.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Trusting Jesus]

Hypathia, can I ask you a little bit about yourself. What is your background....I don't really want to know what church you attend, but more of what do you study. Do you have any Bible teachers that you are studying? Where you raised in a Christian church or did you just recently find Christ?

The reason I ask is that if we know whether or not you have come out of a church that doesn't preach Christ this may be what is scaring you. Also, not all Bible teachers are solid in their teaching. Much of the Old Testament does show an angry God, but really the history behind these seemingly undeserved death nd devestation can explain a lot. God does get angry at disobedience. He always gives plenty of time to repent. So when you read of, say, the Flood. These people had many, many, many, many years to turn from their evil ways. But they didn't repent.

Tell us a bit about yourself and we may be able to help you more.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[Smalcald]

Don't confuse Law and Gospel.

Indeed God will do with us as He pleases, and He chose to kill His Son for our sake because He loves us that much, and simply because He knew that we could never ever fulfill the Law and thus would all die in our sins. Thus it makes no sense that He would abandon us after that sacrifice.

I would say the main thing you have to fear is your own lack of faith in Christ and His ability to save you, you must firmly cling to this, as that is what faith means, and without it indeed nobody will be saved me or you. Faith is the one thing the devil fears, he does not fear holiness nor our works as they are as filthy rags, he fears us putting our faith in Christ the true source of holiness. Scripture says that love castes out fear. Fear of the Lord is part of faith, but the wild anxious fear that God will not keep His promises that is the inverse of faith.

Peace to you, and certainly scripture says we can rest in His peace that we are complete in Him, and you are; it is already done. Have joy.

[Guest shiloh357]

As for the other two verses, the Bible says those things, making you feel secure, then undermines that security when with the "depart from me I never knew you" verses that describe Judgement Day. I can't not take into account actions by God in the OT, what was done to Jesus/God [his torture] actions Paul committed against people via God in the NT and descriptions of what Jesus is going to do to the population at his reture.....plus what is going to happen to people in hell for all eternity. Taking all these things into account I can't "know" where I'm going even if I beg for mercy on a daily basis. It's like picking up a hitchiker, seeing that it's Ted Bundy and believing him when he says, "Trust me I won't hurt you".

As I have already pointed out, both John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13 tell us that we CAN know what our eternal destiny is. Those who know Christ have eternal life today.

Eternal life is right now. It is not linear like our natural life. That is because eternal life is not a place or even a length of time. Eternal life is a person. Jesus said:

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

(John 11:25)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(John 14:6)

Hypathia, what you need to understand is that Jesus, on the cross satisfied God's justice where sin is concerned. Jesus bore all of God's wrath against sin and He did that so that we would not have die for our own sins.

Lookie here:

Now everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

(2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

Do you know what this is telling us? God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Now, we could not reconcile ourselves to God because of our helpless estate before Him. God does not need to reconcile Himself to us becaause has not sinned against us or wronged us. So what did God do? God played the role of the offender and the offended. It is like a judge handing down the death sentence to the defendant, but sentencing himself to the electric chair. Jesus was God in the flesh paying the penalty for our sin, becoming a curse so that we would be removed from under the curse of the law (Gal. 3:13). Jesus has reconciled (made peace) between man and the Father. You see, God is not mad at the world anymore. His justice was satisfied by the Jesus blood, the blood of the New Covenant. God is not counting our trespasses against us.

God went to extraordinary lengths to demonstrate how much He loves us. Those of us who accept His love have no fear of the day of judgment. I have already been judged. I was judged rightesous, and Christ's righteousness has been credited to me (Rom. 4:25).

[MeCajunboy]

I was pondering on a question that's actually been on my mind for awhile now...

As we read about God in the O.T. we see that God, a lot of the time, gave judement/ punishment right then in there.

My question is...why do you think God does not strike people down today as he did in O.T. times.

P.S. - there is no hidden agenda with my question...I am not asking this to pull someone into a debate...this is a question I honestly don't know the answer to and I thought some of you Bible scholars could assist me.

Thanks, and God bless.

I have to agree with "Trusting Jesus" here and say that I personally believe that God is not "smiting" or purposely taking anyone away from this earth, and hasn't since the coming of the Christ Jesus Death for us. I don't doubt for a nano-second that God has the power to do just that, but I think whatever we're doing to lesson our lives here is strictly on us and because of our abuse and bad habits that may be directly affecting our lives. I believe that in that era of man's history, God chose to do it in hopes that man would come to his senses and learn to revere God. And when man only progressed in sin, God determined to use "God on earth" which was the only method man could comprehend and relate to in order to gains man's trust and faith in HIM!

I also believe that God knew that if HE would have created "Perfect Man" that all too soon man would have placed himself above God, knowing that he (man) was perfect . God could not allow that because someone has to oversee HIS people and one way to do that is to have us all with some kind of infallibility or imperfection or flaw; hence SIN! This way God could give man "choice" and the ability to learn right from wrong and make his own decisions about where he wants to be and whom he wants to be with for his eternity. Just a thought!

Blessings

Cajun

[Smalcald]

But it is an interesting discussion in another way.

Scripture says that it is appointed, once for a man to die. We all have an appointment with death; God's hand is on that. Paul himself yearned and struggled over wanting to be with Christ, saying "to live is Christ and to die is gain".

So yes God does in that sense "smite" us, scripture says for this very reason He raised up Pharaoh, to show His might and His Word through Pharaoh. But death with faith is not something to be feared. I am human and thus I have anxiety about death, but as a person who has faith in Christ, if my faith were as it should I would not fear death at all but would look forward to that time when God does take me. I will say that I am much more at peace with death now than before I was a believer.