Calvin vs. Arminius

[larryt]

Sorry for my intrusion.

I am not a Calvinist, or an Arminian, but I do have friends who are Calvinists.

Double predestination is just one variety of Calvinism, so not all Calvinists believe in double predestination.

Double predestination falls under the sub-heading of the Ordo Salutis (order of salvation). The Ordo Salutis is the order in which God decided or decreed certain things to save some people.

From site :

http://www.spurgeon....es/sup_infr.htm

Supralapsarianism

1. 
   
   • Elect some, reprobate rest
     
   • Create
     
     • Permit Fall
       
     • Provide salvation for elect
       
     • Call elect to salvation
       

Infralapsarianism

1. Create
   
   • Permit Fall
     
     • Elect some, pass over the rest
       
       • Provide salvation for elect
         
         • Call elect to salvation
           

Amyralidism

[*]Create

• Permit Fall
  
  • Provide salvation sufficient for all
    
    • Elect some, pass over rest
      
      • Call elect to salvation
        

Arminianism

[*]Create

[*]Permit Fall

[*]Provide salvation for all

[*]Call all to salvation

[*]Elect those who believe

Thank you for the link and the other info in the layout.

grace and peace

[larryt]

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

This verse is always taken out of context and is used to "prove" that God wants to save every last human being but overlook who Peter is addressing.

2Pe 1:1 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

.2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us–ward, not willing that any(of us) should perish, but that all(of us) should come to repentance.

Who is the any that God is not willing to let perish? He is long suffering toward US, who have obtained like precious faith along with Peter..

[Guest]

I 100% reject BOTH of these.

They both go "too far"

They both subject Scripture to WAY to much HUMAN, sinful, fallen "logic."

They both embrace SOME Scriptures, put too much into them, and then largely "dismiss" others because they don't seem to agree.

I think there is "mystery" here - and that's okay. We don't NEED to understand; we NEED to trust/rely. I don't UNDERSTAND how or why all these things "crank out." God does. That's all that matters.

I believe that because I believe, GOD did that. ALL good things from God. ALL related to salvation is God's doing.

I believe that we are justified by Grace, because of Christ, through faith - and that's ONE inseparable doctrine and article of faith.

HOW GOD does that - I don't know (fully).

I thus reject TULIP and DAISY.

I am currious as to how long you have been thinking about this. Take just the first point in Tulip & DAISY. Total depravity or Depraved but just partially. You personally, where do you see yourself?

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1

~

Personally

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

I See The Error That Sinners Can't Come To Jesus

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

And The Error That God Fumbles

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:26-31

As He Handles Babies

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

As Utter Bolderdash

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

You See

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4

~

And It's Been Since 1949 That I Started My Struggles With Mens' Twist

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:21

On The Power And Grace Of God

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Struggle To The Point

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. James 1:2-3

Of Despare

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23

Until I Remendered

And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the LORD: Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall. My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me.

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. Lamentatrions 3:18-24

If God Said It Is So, Then Indeed It Is So

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Psalms 51:10-12

Love, Joe

[CaliforniaJosiah]

TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism

Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):

T: "total depravity"

Calvinism: Man after the Fall has no ability to cooperate with God's grace in conversion

Arminianism: Man after the Fall can cooperate with God’s grace in conversion

Lutheranism: Agrees with Calvinism on total depravity

Relevant Bible passages: Romans 3:9-20; Gal. 3:22

U: "unconditional election"

Calvinism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation and the others (reprobates) for damnation.

Arminianism: Before the world was created, God foresaw those who would choose Him of their own free will and elected them to salvation

Lutheranism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation but did not reprobate (chose for damnation) any.

Relevant Bible passages: Romans 9:11-13; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Mat. 25:34, 41.

L: "limited atonement"

Calvinism: Jesus only died for the elect, objectively atoning for their sin, but he did not die for the sins of all.

Arminianism: Christ died to give all the possibility to be saved.

Lutheranism: Christ’s death objectively atoned for all the sin of the world; by believing we receive this objective atonement and its benefits.

Relevant Bible passages: John 1:29; 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:14-15, 19.

I: "irresistable grace"

Calvinism: In all of God's outward actions (preaching, baptism, etc.) there is an outward call which all receive, yet there is also a secret effectual calling which God gives to the elect alone. This effectual calling alone saves and is irresistable.

Arminianism: God gives in His outward actions the same grace to all; this grace can be resisted by all.

Lutheranism: The question is not answerable; for the elect, grace will triumph, yet those who reject Christ have rejected that Grace; yet the grace is the same.

Relevant Bible passages: Eph. 2:1-10; Acts 13:48; James 1:13-15

P: "perseverance of the saints" ("once saved, always saved.")

Calvinism: Salvation cannot be lost.

Arminianism: Salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin and unbelief.

Lutheranism: Salvation can be lost through unbelief, but this legal warning does not cancel the Gospel promise of election

Relevant Bible passages: 1 Cor. 10:12. 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22.

.

[His_disciple3]

TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism

Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):

T: "total depravity"

Calvinism: Man after the Fall has no ability to cooperate with God's grace in conversion

Arminianism: Man after the Fall can cooperate with God’s grace in conversion

Lutheranism: Agrees with Calvinism on total depravity

Relevant Bible passages: Romans 3:9-20; Gal. 3:22

U: "unconditional election"

Calvinism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation and the others (reprobates) for damnation.

Arminianism: Before the world was created, God foresaw those who would choose Him of their own free will and elected them to salvation

Lutheranism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation but did not reprobate (chose for damnation) any.

Relevant Bible passages: Romans 9:11-13; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Mat. 25:34, 41.

L: "limited atonement"

Calvinism: Jesus only died for the elect, objectively atoning for their sin, but he did not die for the sins of all.

Arminianism: Christ died to give all the possibility to be saved.

Lutheranism: Christ’s death objectively atoned for all the sin of the world; by believing we receive this objective atonement and its benefits.

Relevant Bible passages: John 1:29; 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:14-15, 19.

I: "irresistable grace"

Calvinism: In all of God's outward actions (preaching, baptism, etc.) there is an outward call which all receive, yet there is also a secret effectual calling which God gives to the elect alone. This effectual calling alone saves and is irresistable.

Arminianism: God gives in His outward actions the same grace to all; this grace can be resisted by all.

Lutheranism: The question is not answerable; for the elect, grace will triumph, yet those who reject Christ have rejected that Grace; yet the grace is the same.

Relevant Bible passages: Eph. 2:1-10; Acts 13:48; James 1:13-15

P: "perseverance of the saints" ("once saved, always saved.")

Calvinism: Salvation cannot be lost.

Arminianism: Salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin and unbelief.

Lutheranism: Salvation can be lost through unbelief, but this legal warning does not cancel the Gospel promise of election

Relevant Bible passages: 1 Cor. 10:12. 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22.

.

your information is wrong. I am not calvinist, but I do not believe that one can lose their salvation

1Ti 2:3

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

(1Jn 2:1)

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2)

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism

Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):

T: "total depravity"

Calvinism: Man after the Fall has no ability to cooperate with God's grace in conversion

Arminianism: Man after the Fall can cooperate with God’s grace in conversion

Lutheranism: Agrees with Calvinism on total depravity

Relevant Bible passages: Romans 3:9-20; Gal. 3:22

U: "unconditional election"

Calvinism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation and the others (reprobates) for damnation.

Arminianism: Before the world was created, God foresaw those who would choose Him of their own free will and elected them to salvation

Lutheranism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation but did not reprobate (chose for damnation) any.

Relevant Bible passages: Romans 9:11-13; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Mat. 25:34, 41.

L: "limited atonement"

Calvinism: Jesus only died for the elect, objectively atoning for their sin, but he did not die for the sins of all.

Arminianism: Christ died to give all the possibility to be saved.

Lutheranism: Christ’s death objectively atoned for all the sin of the world; by believing we receive this objective atonement and its benefits.

Relevant Bible passages: John 1:29; 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:14-15, 19.

I: "irresistable grace"

Calvinism: In all of God's outward actions (preaching, baptism, etc.) there is an outward call which all receive, yet there is also a secret effectual calling which God gives to the elect alone. This effectual calling alone saves and is irresistable.

Arminianism: God gives in His outward actions the same grace to all; this grace can be resisted by all.

Lutheranism: The question is not answerable; for the elect, grace will triumph, yet those who reject Christ have rejected that Grace; yet the grace is the same.

Relevant Bible passages: Eph. 2:1-10; Acts 13:48; James 1:13-15

P: "perseverance of the saints" ("once saved, always saved.")

Calvinism: Salvation cannot be lost.

Arminianism: Salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin and unbelief.

Lutheranism: Salvation can be lost through unbelief, but this legal warning does not cancel the Gospel promise of election

Relevant Bible passages: 1 Cor. 10:12. 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22.

.

your information is wrong. I am not calvinist, but I do not believe that one can lose their salvation

Then you may accept ONE point of TULIP (as I do) - and (as with me) you are ergo not a Calvinist.

.

[larryt]

Larry pointed out…

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself

Yes of course it was by His own good pleasure that He saved any because He owed no man anything (for He knew all would sin) and yes God purposed this within Himself because there was only God and only God creates. However, the question arises on the basis (within Himself) that He made this decision and this is where the debate rages…Calvin in Institutes book 3, 21:5 confirms his ultimate belief in double predestination when he declares “"We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others."

But is this what the Bible shows us? I was a Calvinist for ten years but after much searching and reading the word for what it plainly says, not considering what I had been taught that it MEANS, I realized there are far too many scriptures that oppose this view and demand that man was created with free-will and that when God speaks to a person (at some point or other) and makes Himself known to all (by the Spirit or the word) He has required man’s correct and appropriate response (and in the Bible some do and some do not, rejecting Him and His word, preferring to be the lord of their own lives doing what is right in their own eyes)

So when I sought an answer I found He predestines “according to His foreknowing” (Romans 8:29 and 1 Peter 1:2)…not according to His arbitrary choice to do so. He foreknew and deals with man according to the individuals response, when His will has been made known.

Now we started off with the passages in Ephesians 1 and sadly I was always taught this section of teaching as if it ends at verse 12 (this is where almost all Calvinists stop) but verses 13 and 14 are Paul’s concluding summation of the process and it includes man’s part…let us look at these together.

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

Notice He concludes that you trusted Him AFTER you heard the word of truth (faith comes by hearing) which is the gospel of salvation…and AFTER you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Luke 24:49; Acts 2:38)…the guarantee of your inheritance

Regeneration therefore (that is being born of His Spirit) follows belief and does not precede it. Now salvation is still all of God because He initiates the relationship (but has not yet regenerated) all those who receive Him are given the right to BECOME the children of God (regenerated) – John 1:12 – they who are so regenerated are born of God. But this is the reward of faith not the cause.

He reveals Himself and His will (totally by grace)…man is required to believe/receive/turn/obey (though faith)….and God under no obligation whatsoever has sovereignly determined that by this you shall become a partaker of the divine nature (being born of His Spirit...which again is totally by grace)…now the many to whom the Lord has revealed Himself will not give up being lord of their own lives (Genesis 3:5) and deciding good and evil as is right in their own eyes (Romans 1) and God gives them over to the reprobation of their minds (they freely reject God and the knowledge of God)….but the initial belief afforded at the point of His prevenient grace is man’s. God offers, we accept or reject and He by grace saves those who accept and do...ONLY GOD HAS THE POWER TO SAVE, EVEN OUR BELIEF DOES NOT OBLIGATE OR CAUSE SALVATION (caps not anger but for emphasis). However, He was not made (yatzar) or created us to believe and as opposed to others being created or made to not believe…there are far too many scriptures that oppose this and demonstrate man having free will right from the beginning all the way through to the end…

In His love

Brother Paul

Hi Brother Paul,

Welcome to WB and thank you for your time in addressing this matter.

 

Several point that you bring up I would like to address.

 

I was a Calvinist for ten years but after much searching and reading the word for what it plainly says, not considering what I had been taught that it MEANS, I realized there are far too many scriptures that oppose this view and demand that man was created with free-will...

I was never a Calvinist nor am I now a Calvinist.  I did not come to the conclusions about TULIP or DAISY from looking at their doctrine but came to the same conclusions and found out that that is what is taught by Calvinist doctrine.  I have stated several time in this thread that one can preach Calvinism and never preach Christ.  On the other hand  If you preach Christ I have found that the doctrines of Calvinism are all there.

 

One thing I agree with is that Adam was created with a free will, in that it was not subject to bondage in sin.  When he disobeyed though, his will was subjected to the sin nature that permeated his entire being and was no longer "FREE" as many claim.  If you still believe man has a FREE will them you will have to define "free" for me in both:

 

the will is free to....

 

&

 

the will is free from...

 

I have asked this several time and I have not gotten an answer from anyone yet.

 

and that when God speaks to a person (at some point or other) and makes Himself known to all (by the Spirit or the word) He has required man’s correct and appropriate response

 

I do believe that all men are made aware that the One True God, the Lord of Lords, for the heavens declare the glory of God, but that is not to say that God has revealed Himself to all men.  In any case man by the fact that God exists is responsible and required to subject himself to the King of Kings.

 

So when I sought an answer I found He predestines “according to His foreknowing” (Romans 8:29 and 1 Peter 1:2)…not according to His arbitrary choice to do so. He foreknew and deals with man according to the individuals response, when His will has been made known.

 

 

 

God chooses exclusively based according to His own will who will be saved and does not save the rest, by leaving them to their own sinfulness.  It is not a matter of God saving some and condemning others.  All are condemned already and the fact that God decides to save some of us is the essence of Sovereign Grace.  God's choice is not arbitrary but is it not based on what man "will" do either.  Foreknowledge has nothing to do with knowing beforehand.  If that is all that it means then there are people that Jesus does not know about.

 

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

And when Adam knew his wife it is not talking about just knowing about her but indicates a deep intimate relationship both physical and spiritual.

 

God predestinated those He did foreknow in that He already had a relationship with them before they even existed in this world.  They existed in the mind of God.

 

It also makes God a respecter of persons to grant salvation to those that will do something, choose to believe.

 

The fact that man is immersed in sinfulness requires him to forever war against God unless there is a change first.  It takes God removing man's stoney heart and creating a heart of flesh for man to even consider bowing his knee to the the king.

 

Grace & Peace

LT

[enoob57]

I was never a Calvinist nor am I now a Calvinist.  I did not come to the conclusions about TULIP or DAISY from looking at their doctrine but came to the same conclusions and found out that that is what is taught by Calvinist doctrine.  I have stated several time in this thread that one can preach Calvinism and never preach Christ.  On the other hand  If you preach Christ I have found that the doctrines of Calvinism are all there.

 

One thing I agree with is that Adam was created with a free will, in that it was not subject to bondage in sin.  When he disobeyed though, his will was subjected to the sin nature that permeated his entire being and was no longer "FREE" as many claim.  If you still believe man has a FREE will them you will have to define "free" for me in both:

 

the will is free to....

 

&

 

the will is free from...

 

I have asked this several time and I have not gotten an answer from anyone yet.

 

As I see the freedom ... it is to see truth and lie!

Gen 3:22-23

22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us,

to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of

the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" — 

NKJV

Now as we all became sin in Adam all died! However in seeing the truth of this

we became empty of hope in what we had become... yet still seeing the truth

and believing God 'IS' we submitted to The Who of God and was granted

repentance to turn from ourselves by 'death of' and seek His Life (Christ) to

reign in place of our own-> our lives now made dead by The Cross but alive 

in Him...

John 8:31-36

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word,

you are My disciples indeed.  32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth

shall make you free."

33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been

in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is

a slave of sin.  35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son

abides forever.  36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

NKJV

Love, Steven

 

[enoob57]

Paul that was not a quote but statement of combined truth from God's Word!

 

Don't  you believe every Word of God will be fulfilled to the fullness of that Word?

Rom 3:23-24
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NKJV
All became sin is reflective of the truth 'all have sinned'... God setting upon the eternities Has proclaimed all have sinned!

Rom 3:10

10 As it is written:

"There is none righteous, no, not one;
NKJV

not even the infant no not one!

As we can see truth - so ordained by God's Word (Gen 3:22; Rom 1:20-21) / so also we are sin 'all' from Adam! Now seeing truth

I in the void of death cried out to The Lord Jesus to save me- not that I had worth but the truth was setting me free by willingness

to die to all that I was... this is true repentance to turn from death to life by not remaining in the death (submission to body and this world)

but of life (with Jesus where He 'IS')-

The Heritage of the Born of God:

Col 3:1-11

3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.

2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory. 5 Therefore put to death your members

which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of

these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you

lived in them.

8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do

not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed

in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor

uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
NKJV

No one may put bounds about God... He simply 'IS' without them!   Love, Steven

[OakWood]

What an incredibly long and mind-numbingly hard thread this is. But here's my humble bit for what it is worth.

 

I have to reject Calvinism.

If we have no free will and God knows and plans everything, then the fact that I am writing this post is pre-determined. In fact, I might as well just give up and not bother, but if I did, that would be pre-determined too. You could go on and on with this until you ended up bashing your head against a wall. That would be pre-determined too.

 

If it is pre-determined by God who is saved and who isn't  - then that would be cruel and unfair.

Of course, as soon as anyone on this forum claims that anything is unfair then we hear the usual stuff about "it's not unfair if God decides it. We cannot judge things by our own standards. God knows best. We cannot understand God's mind" and so on........ I've heard it all before.

 

God made us in his image. So we do understand some of the things that he does, just not to anywhere near to the same extent.

 

Does God know for certain who is saved and who isn't? He probably has a very good idea.... in fact he probably has an amazingly good idea..... but is he 100% certain? I doubt it. Not because he can't choose who is saved and who isn't, but because he has chosen to give us some choice in the matter.

 

It is not insulting to God to say that he doesn't know everything. He still knows more than anyone or anything ever - and knows more than all beings or all things combined. How could we love him and have a relationship with him if everything was predetermined by him? That wouldn't be love, we would just be robots - Stepford wives programmed to obey him and demonstrate a false affection for him.

 

Is God perfect, yes, but only because nothing is more perfect than him, therefore he defines perfection. So can God defy logic? No he can't, because by definition it wouldn't be logic. Does 2 plus 2 = 4. Yes it does. Can God change that? No, I doubt it.

 

When Christians start saying that God is beyond all analysis it reminds me of how Muslims treat Allah. When Allah does things that are clearly contradictory or illogical then Muslims go all brain dead. No one can understand Allah, they say. This is nonsense clearly designed to make them stop thinking. It's how Mohammed controlled them. His false revelations were clearly ridiculous but by telling Muslims that they were incapable of questioning Allah's logic they became afraid to try and do so.

 

I believe that God is infallible not because he is, but because he defines infallibility. Nothing is as infallible as he is. He never lies and he never forgets, and nothing is more powerful than he is. He is also love and he defines love. The fact that we too are capable of love is because he made us like him. We don't possess all his qualities and we possess not even a miniscule amount of his knowledge or power, but within certain parameters we do have free will. If our salvation is pre-determined, then our free will is worthless and is not really free will.

As for our names being written into the book of life, who is to say that God has even finished the book yet? He probably started writing it along time ago, but I suspect that it has still to be completed.