Calvin vs. Arminius

[Guest Bro David™]

[quote name='Bro David

[mrs]

[quote name='Bro David

[Shane]

The Basic emphasis of T.U.L.I.P, is that we are all predestined.

The basic emphasis of Ephesians 1: 1-15 seems to be the same as well, or so we just ignore this?

So kindly do not mis-interpret Calvinism. Hyper or otherwise.

Please dont insult me, there is a decent way to debate something without getting arrogant. I do not misinterpret Calvanism my friend. I understand it quite well.

Maybe you should learn more about it before you are so quick to jump on it.

But allas I doubt you will do so and I certainly dont want to refer you to Romans again

[mrs]

[quote name='Bro David

[Guest Bro David™]

Again.I believe that God is way more the righteous Creator than the loving Father.

What you are missing is that we all deserve to go to hell.God would have been totally righteous and totally just to let us all go to hell. The fact that He even bothered to make a way of escape shows just how much He loves us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We all do deserve to go to Hell.

What I am asking is do you seriously think that some of us who are alive right now and some of us who are yet to be born are already predestined to Hell ?

What was the purpose for Jesus to die then ?

If everything has already been decided ?

Why did God have to search for some true believers before destroying the lands with flood if He had already pre-planned that only Noah and his family was fit to live ?

Why did Jesus go out an preach if only some of them were destined for Heaven.

If no matter what we do, some of us will still go to Hell than why do we need to preach the Gospel ?

In the hope that only the already chosen ones will hear them ?

Take a good look at the nature of God through the ages in the Bible.

It shows a fatherly Love. it shows a fatherly anger, it shows a fatherly disposition.

Try creating something just to destroy it and you will know why God would not have pre-planned who was togo and who was to stay.

Looking at Him has a Creator God even more dis-proves the Calvinistic view of Theology.

YBIC

[mrs]

[quote name='Bro David

[dgolvach]

Calvin is up 56 to 24 over Arminius with very little time left on the clock!

Dan

(Calvin I suppose)

[Shane]

Just to add to my last post and show I am not misinterpreting Calvanism.

Hyper Calvamism does exist and here is a link to an article.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm

[Guest Bro David™]

Hey just so you know, I believed exactly like you a month ago. So I know what you are thinking.

The reason God sent Jesus was because that was part of his plan to redeem man. You know that the result of sin is death. And the only way for the sin to be paid for was a sinless human to die.This was God's plan. Could He have used another one? Sure, He can do anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi there Shane,

How is the weather in Africa now bro ?

Great to see ya back.

God did not send Jesus because it was part of His plan to redeem man.

Read Below.

John 3: 16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It does not say that whosoever was already chosen should not perish...does it ?

Personally, I don't look at it as Him deciding 'who stays out'. We already decided that ourselves. We were on our way to hell when we were born. "For by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin. And so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Rom 5:12

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Unfortunately mate, the Calvinistic view is exactly that.

It presumes that God has already chosen His elect.

Ahem !!!!, before we are born.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.." Eph 1:4,5

How do you explain those ^ away?

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Eph [1]

2: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Here it does not say, that we all have been chosen before time.

Rather it says that we have been predestined to be saved and adopted by Christ.

He is taking about the Salvation Jesus brought.

He is talking about the Grace that we have been chosen to be able to be under.

It is not about being predestined since Birth.

Paul was paying tribute to the Fact that Jesus was the Creator God.

Paul was describing how we now are all under the Grace of Jesus and how we all have been predestined to be under that Grace from the beginning of time.

He is talking about all humanity after Jesus and how we all are, now open to the mystery of His will.

His will that anyone who calls on Him will be saved.

This is not a chapter re-enforcing Calvinistic doctrine.

Paul was showing us that Jesus and the period of Grace and We being under it has been planned before time.

God did not send his only Son to die for only some people, He died for all mankind.

Jesus did not die so that some babies are born to go to Hell.

He died so that everyone would have a fair chance and a choice.

We should really belive in choices not chances.

YBIC

[Guest Bro David™]

Just to add to my last post and show I am not misinterpreting Calvanism.

Hyper Calvamism does exist and here is a link to an article.

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah Bro, I know all about Hyper Calvinism.

I started arguin about this The first month into my Bach' in Theo and now I graduate in June.

So yeah I have been in the best of Calvinistic debates.

But I would thank you for answering all my posts with decadence.

For that I thank you.

Bless You.

YBIC