Calvin vs. Arminius

[enoob57]

I am 100% Calvinist ... the whole bible supports it if you read the root meaning of the more tripped up words such as "all" and keep things in context.

keep studying

This entire thread makes me tired.

To earnestly content for the faith means just that. It is the fact that men do not have convictions nor are they confident in what they believe. I can never tire of serving my Lord.

God is sovereign or He is not. (Most do not know what the sovereignty of God really means nor have they thought much about it.)

Man is totally depraved or he is not.

God loves everyone? Tell that to the inhabitants of Sodom or those that live in Noah's day. God loves His people and hates all the workers of iniquity.

The saint will persevere by trusting in God alone and not anything in themselves, or they can walk away because they have free will and trust they can hold on.

The adversary is always trying to put heresies in the mind of people and they are necessary to show who really believes and who doesn't.

So clearly you are teaching God cursing Adam and Eve for His Choice made in them... is this your understanding of God's Sovereignty?

[Guest]

.... Have you decided not to discuss this any more with me?....

Well Beloved, If You Insist

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

Whosoever Will

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Drink

[OneLight]

This whole post boils down to do you believe that man is totally depraved as one of the points of Calvinism or do you believe that man is only wounded and can raise himself from the dead, see though blind from birth on his own ...... choose to love God on his own. After all you seem to say that God bases His choice in salvation on those that He sees will choose Him if I understand your point.

Well, then you really missed the point of this thread.

[larryt]

This whole post boils down to do you believe that man is totally depraved as one of the points of Calvinism or do you believe that man is only wounded and can raise himself from the dead, see though blind from birth on his own ...... choose to love God on his own. After all you seem to say that God bases His choice in salvation on those that He sees will choose Him if I understand your point.

Well, then you really missed the point of this thread.

So what is the point that you think I have missed. I do believe that points of Calvinism, though I do not believe in preaching Calvinism, are the essence of the Gospel/The Faith once delivered to the Saints. Your specific post referred to above was the reason for my question on "Do you see man as totally depraved or just wounded?" I was linking the post to the first point of Calvinism which is the point of the thread as I see it.

grace & peace

[larryt]

I am 100% Calvinist ... the whole bible supports it if you read the root meaning of the more tripped up words such as "all" and keep things in context.

keep studying

This entire thread makes me tired.

To earnestly content for the faith means just that. It is the fact that men do not have convictions nor are they confident in what they believe. I can never tire of serving my Lord.

God is sovereign or He is not. (Most do not know what the sovereignty of God really means nor have they thought much about it.)

Man is totally depraved or he is not.

God loves everyone? Tell that to the inhabitants of Sodom or those that live in Noah's day. God loves His people and hates all the workers of iniquity.

The saint will persevere by trusting in God alone and not anything in themselves, or they can walk away because they have free will and trust they can hold on.

The adversary is always trying to put heresies in the mind of people and they are necessary to show who really believes and who doesn't.

So clearly you are teaching God cursing Adam and Eve for His Choice made in them... is this your understanding of God's Sovereignty?

I am not sure what you point is in your question. I believe God cursed all mankind in Adam.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

[larryt]

.... Have you decided not to discuss this any more with me?....

Well Beloved, If You Insist

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

Whosoever Will

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Drink

Only those that are thirsty, and hear, and will; will choose to drink of the water of Life. Thiose that are not thirsty and refuse to hear and have no desire to drink won't. So where does the desire to drink come from? How do the deaf hear? How is it that the natural man could ever choose anything of the Spirit for it is foolishness to him?

grace and peace

[OneLight]

This whole post boils down to do you believe that man is totally depraved as one of the points of Calvinism or do you believe that man is only wounded and can raise himself from the dead, see though blind from birth on his own ...... choose to love God on his own. After all you seem to say that God bases His choice in salvation on those that He sees will choose Him if I understand your point.

Well, then you really missed the point of this thread.

So what is the point that you think I have missed. I do believe that points of Calvinism, though I do not believe in preaching Calvinism, are the essence of the Gospel/The Faith once delivered to the Saints. Your specific post referred to above was the reason for my question on "Do you see man as totally depraved or just wounded?" I was linking the post to the first point of Calvinism which is the point of the thread as I see it.

grace & peace

By your words, if I understand them correctly, tells me that you do not understand what people, including myself, have said. Your exact words are "can raise himself from the dead, see though blind from birth on his own". Nobody that I am aware of claims to be able to raise themselves from the dead, or can see though blind by themselves. They can, however, answer His call of salvation. It is , and always has been, God who does the work.

[larryt]

This whole post boils down to do you believe that man is totally depraved as one of the points of Calvinism or do you believe that man is only wounded and can raise himself from the dead, see though blind from birth on his own ...... choose to love God on his own. After all you seem to say that God bases His choice in salvation on those that He sees will choose Him if I understand your point.

Well, then you really missed the point of this thread.

So what is the point that you think I have missed. I do believe that points of Calvinism, though I do not believe in preaching Calvinism, are the essence of the Gospel/The Faith once delivered to the Saints. Your specific post referred to above was the reason for my question on "Do you see man as totally depraved or just wounded?" I was linking the post to the first point of Calvinism which is the point of the thread as I see it.

grace & peace

By your words, if I understand them correctly, tells me that you do not understand what people, including myself, have said. Your exact words are "can raise himself from the dead, see though blind from birth on his own". Nobody that I am aware of claims to be able to raise themselves from the dead, or can see though blind by themselves. They can, however, answer His call of salvation. It is , and always has been, God who does the work.

So the direct question that I have been trying to get an answer to is:

Is man totally depraved or is he only wounded?

And the referrence to being raised from the dead is a spiritually dead person, I am talking about spiritually deadness and spiritual blindness. To answer the call is in my view only possible if God does a work first, giving prevenient grace to those He chose in His sovereign will before the foundation of the world to save not loosing any that were given to Christ.

[Guest]

This whole post boils down to do you believe that man is totally depraved

~

As I See It Beloved, These Are The Words Of Some Of Our Church Men Philosophizing

And Expressing Their Thoughts With Their Legal Codification Of God's Grace

And I Must Ask, Are Their Words And Works Even Biblical?

Or Christ Like?

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

For Dear One, I Do Believe The Bible Shows We Are ALL Dead Men Walking

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Ephesians 2:1

And That Unless We Will Even Will To Will

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

Will To Hear And To Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Unless We Will To Eat

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

We Will Remain Forever Damned

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

And As For Those Folk Clearly Predestined

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:27

We Daily Pray And Praise The LORD, Knowing His Mercies Are Forever

For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. Isaiah 10:22

~

IMO

Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. Mark 10:15

When Men Splash Through The Blood Of Christ

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 1 Peter 1:18-22

With Daisies And Tulips Or Some Other Such Measurement Of God's Grace

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 1 Peter 1:12-17

I See Men Fearlessly Binding The Love Of Christ

This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. Lamentations 3:21-23

With The Finite Mind Of The Created

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9

Doing God A Grave Disservice

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15

You See

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

~

And Dear Believers It Is My Intention To Point To Jesus

And Not Just To Offend The Great Thinkers

Of The Early Christian Churches

Or Their Children

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[enoob57]

So clearly you are teaching God cursing Adam and Eve for His Choice made in them... is this your understanding of God's Sovereignty?

I am not sure what you point is in your question. I believe God cursed all mankind in Adam.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

Is God responsible for sin?