kari21 Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I can not for the life of me understand how spirit filled true christians can continue to believe in the pretrib rapture when scripture undeniably disproves it. You can show some one scripture after scripture and in Isa's case they even quote scripture that disproves the pretrib rapture yet continue to accept it,even promote it. This is beyond my ability to comprehend,to be honest I find it some what disgraceful. I find it odd that you insist God will unleash his holy wrath on the wicked...and his children who love, trust, and believe in him, in the same stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2007 Right, Kari. Born again believers are saved from the wrath to come if I read Paul correctly in 1 Thessalonians 5:9. Verse 11 is very good too. Jesus has already born our judgment for us at a place called Mount Calvary....and He will not demand payment twice. ONCE is FOREVER! AMEN! And thank You, Lord Jesus! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2007 There is nothing that says God needs to remove us from the earth to spare us from wrath. He could also bring us through it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 17, 2007 There is nothing that says God needs to remove us from the earth to spare us from wrath. He could also bring us through it Absolutely. God is omnipotent. He brought His people out of Egypt. He protected them from all the plagues that befell the egytians before hand. Those who believed Him and obeyed Him were spared........Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. The 144000 and the two witnesses will be just that....witnesses.......They can't grant salvation any more than we can. The Lord and the Holy Spirit are all that cane save and they will be there to the end of the age.......IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehilah Ba'Aretz Posted December 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 263 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/02/1954 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I can not for the life of me understand how spirit filled true christians can continue to believe in the pretrib rapture when scripture undeniably disproves it. You can show some one scripture after scripture and in Isa's case they even quote scripture that disproves the pretrib rapture yet continue to accept it,even promote it. This is beyond my ability to comprehend,to be honest I find it some what disgraceful. You do realize that you just called the world's largest Christian denomination disgraceful, right? Your inability to comprehend the thing may not be a railing judgment against anyone other than yourself. I would like to suggest that you take a deep breath, apologize to the majority of Christianity and then try to understand the things you've missed up until this point. The subject of love should be at the top of that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted December 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I can not for the life of me understand how spirit filled true christians can continue to believe in the pretrib rapture when scripture undeniably disproves it. You can show some one scripture after scripture and in Isa's case they even quote scripture that disproves the pretrib rapture yet continue to accept it,even promote it. This is beyond my ability to comprehend,to be honest I find it some what disgraceful. You do realize that you just called the world's largest Christian denomination disgraceful, right? Your inability to comprehend the thing may not be a railing judgment against anyone other than yourself. I would like to suggest that you take a deep breath, apologize to the majority of Christianity and then try to understand the things you've missed up until this point. The subject of love should be at the top of that list. Tehilah called it like it is oChristiansnmings. Just because it is the worlds largest Christian denomination doesn't mean that they are right. The whole world thought the world was flat until one man made a big deal about it, said they were wrong and proved it. It goes along with what I tell people. We shouldn't even take any preachers word for it. We should always research what our preachers say about scripture because they make mistakes and they can be wrong.An example of this is how all of these high profile preachers are wrong about the pre-trib concept. Benny Hinn, John Hagee, Charles Stanley, Morris Cirillo, J. R Church, Jack Van Impy and many more are pre-tribers and they are teaching the false doctrine of escapism pre-trib concept. By the way they are not the worlds largest Christian denomination. The Catholicism is the largest Christian denomination and they are wrong about allot more then just the pre-trib concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted December 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2007 But doesn't the Apostle Paul assure us in Romans 5:9 that we're "saved FROM the wrath thru Him" and not just "IN the wrath thru Him"? The meaning is quite significant. And wouldn't 1 Thess. 5:9 which states, "God has NOT appointed US to wrath" tend to indicate that the coming Tribulation will be the portion of the UNbeliever and definitely not the believer? Why would the Lord save us from wrath thru His precious blood, then take us thru wrath even though we've already been delivered from it? My future in Christ Jesus is not earthly judgment alongside unsaved individuals but heavenly blessing with the redeemed throngs! Hallelujah & Amen! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted December 18, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I can not for the life of me understand how spirit filled true christians can continue to believe in the pretrib rapture when scripture undeniably disproves it. You can show some one scripture after scripture and in Isa's case they even quote scripture that disproves the pretrib rapture yet continue to accept it,even promote it. This is beyond my ability to comprehend,to be honest I find it some what disgraceful. I find it odd that you insist God will unleash his holy wrath on the wicked...and his children who love, trust, and believe in him, in the same stroke. I find it odd that you would put words in my mouth. I also find it odd that you would call God a liar and believe in him. I find it odd that I still talk to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted December 18, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/15/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1965 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Where is the scripture to back this theory up? I do not believe this to be so, the bible doesn't say that the 144,000 will be preaching to Jews only. I do believe they are preaching in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas. We must remember that there are the two witnesses that are out in the outer court prophesying to the Gentile nations aswell. Check my answer in post #6. As you get to know me, you will notice that I will often use the words "I believe", which is different then saying "the Scripture says." I am talking about how I believe. Allow me to ask this. How is the whole world going to see the Two Witnesses who have been killed, lying in the street? revelation 11:9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. OneLight Hi OneLight, I don't think you realize I was actually answering what Massorite @ Dec 16 2007, 02:28 PM) had said in your earlier post. I believe what you are saying, I know with technology today the world is able to see things all over the world even under the sea. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted December 18, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/15/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1965 Share Posted December 18, 2007 But doesn't the Apostle Paul assure us in Romans 5:9 that we're "saved FROM the wrath thru Him" and not just "IN the wrath thru Him"? The meaning is quite significant. And wouldn't 1 Thess. 5:9 which states, "God has NOT appointed US to wrath" tend to indicate that the coming Tribulation will be the portion of the UNbeliever and definitely not the believer? Why would the Lord save us from wrath thru His precious blood, then take us thru wrath even though we've already been delivered from it? My future in Christ Jesus is not earthly judgment alongside unsaved individuals but heavenly blessing with the redeemed throngs! Hallelujah & Amen! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com #1 kept from wrath and translated to heaven b4 the trib are two very,very different things. #2 why would you believe the tribulation period to be the wrath,the wrath could be. A.The tribulation. B.The firey destruction of the wicked at the post trib 2nd coming. C.Hell. D.The lake of fire. E.separation from God. Personally I believe through scripture that the wrath is ''B''the firey destruction of the wicked at the 2nd coming. But for you to cause 1st thess 5:9 to say there is a pretrib rapture 1st you must prove scripturally that the wrath is the tribulation and 2ndly that the way we are kept from it is through the rapture. Neither one of these can be shown in scripture as fact or truth. Therefore 1st thess 5:9 means that we will be kept from the wrath not that we are going to be raptured b4 the tribulation. How many times do you have to be shown that God's wrath is poured out in the seven seals, seven trumpet and seven bowl judgments. It is angels, God's angels that deliver this wrath upon the earth therefore it is God's wrath poured out on wicked man. It is plain and simple really but you are confusing the matter only for yourself. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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