Slain in the Spirit!

[Vickilynn]

I am happy to be of service to those who feel it necessary to criticize my personal experiences. If you will check, you will find that the majority of those who have been my strongest critics are, for want of a better term "recovering Pentecostals" who have an axe to grind concerning the "slain in the Spirit" phenomenon that is so blatantly abused within Pentecostal circles. I personally have as much use for such fleshly abuses as my critics have, that is none. But the experiences I have had with the Holy Spirit are personal to me. I am not tooting some denomination's horn concerning what they think is the proper definition of being "slain in the Spirit", but rather my own journey with the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact, in my 48 years as a Born-Again Christian, I have found myself on the floor only once when the power of God hit me and I was unable to continue to stand. So, I am not dropping out needlessly or repeatedly, as is so often the case in Pentecostal circles.

What I have posted is simply my experiences and the explanations for my experiences that I have found in God's Word, nothing more, nothing less. Could I be wrong? Of course I could be, but I sincerely don't think so and none of my critics have said anything that would change my mind. Please take my posts for what they are, my earnest desire to hear my Heavenly Father on subjects that I run accross in my journey down the path that Jesus has blazed. I want to share them with others who are seeking just as I have been and still do the wonders of the Born-Again life in Jesus.

Shalom Phil,

Yo dude! Hey! It's not about YOU! Seriously. It's about G-d. No one is criticizing YOU, but rather the view that being slain in the spirit is Scriptural. We are talking issues here. You are the one making it personal.

No one is dissing your experience or opinion. If I may remind you, it was you that dissed others for not sharing your view.

So, let's leave off the personal stuff and just talk issues, OK?

[Scarletprayers]

It seems, bigblue, that your protestations to the phenomenon known as being "slain in the spirit" has touched quite a nerve in this thread. As a recovering Southern Baptist who has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I can empathize with your position and fully understand just why it is not scriptural. I personally have been on both sides of this coin and it was none other than my Heavenly Father who showed me the truth of His word in a rather dramatic fashion. I have listened to the teachings of my denomination, accepting them at face value because I was a newly minted Born Again believer and surely these learned men knew much more about God's Word than I knew. As my leaders and teachers in the things of God, surely they would teach me the truth of Scripture and for the most part, they did.

However, as I studied the role of denominations within the Body of Christ, I became aware that denominations arose in opposition to a doctrine that was being taught which a certain group of people within that denomination opposed as a false teaching. An excellent example of this is the Lutheran denomination which sprang into existence through the teachings of a Roman Catholic monk named Martin Luther. It was never Luther's intention to start a new denomination, he was only interested in reforming some of the false doctrine he had spotted in the Catholic faith. However, when the Catholic Church rejected Martin Luther's teachings as heresy, the followers of Martin Luther broke from the Catholic Church and the Lutheran Denomination was formed, against the expressed wishes of Martin Luther. This denomination arose because some people disagreed with the stance an established denomination had taken on a biblical issue, feeling that their take on the subject was really God's truth. In light of this, no denomination has a corner on what God's really saying in His Word and this then leads to the position that no denomination will ever fully mature in the Lord because they cannot be taught the deeper things of God which contradicts with their established doctrine.

Whenever a denomination or an individual ceases to to be able to be taught the deeper things of God simply because such a teaching goes against their own denomination's take on the subject, they have reached the maximum level of their spiritual maturation. Since we are not omniscient beings, we can never know the full depth of God's mysteries on our own. We need to be taught "line upon line, precept upon precept" as Isaiah taught in the 28th chapter of his book, verse 10. The Person who does this is the Holy Spirit, yet many a Christian will not accept the deeper teachings of the Spirit, especially when such teachings are contrary to their denominational teachings. Yet the denominational teachings are not infallible because the denomination, being formed by men, cannot be an omnicient being in its own right. When Satan has placed false doctrine in a denomination (and he has done it in every denomination) and these false doctrines have been accepted as the very truth of God by that denomination, it takes the power of the Holy Spirit to blast that denomination out of its error. This has such an adverse effect on the people within that denomination who have accepted the false doctrine introduced by Satan as the very truth of God, that the denomination dare not change course. Therefore, the arguments defending the error within a denimination are mounted by the leaders and teachers within that denomination to prove that their view is the only true view on that particular subject. Discussions become heated, Scripture becomes twisted, the false doctrines become more firmly embedded within the fabric of the denomination as they are firmly believed to be not a false doctrine, but the true doctrine from the Word of God. And they will prove their stance by Scripture, often quoting Scripture totally out of context in order to prove a preconcieved point of view is true, not false. Thus we have the dust-up that is evidenced in this thread.

For example, bigblue offered up the opinion that the last verse in 1 Corinthians 14 was talking about order in the worship service, yet this is not the context of that verse. 1 Corinthians 14 is all about the proper use of the gifts of the Spirit and is essentially a continuation of 1 Corinthians 12. The love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13 is essentially a parenthetical chapter that inserts the subject of God's love in the middle of a discussion on the gifts of the Spirit to the Body of Christ and their proper usage. It is necessary because the only way you can properly utilize the gifts of the Spirit is with the love of God, the Agape kind of love. However, you can put parenthesis around the entire 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians, temporarly move it to one side and then read Chapter 12 and continue with Chapter 14. The subject matter continues without a hitch, winding up with Paul admonishing the Corinthians that the use of the gifts of the Spirit should be done decently and in order. Nowhere in the context of 1 Corinthians 12 or 14 is the worship service discussed, only the gifts of the Holy Spirit, what they are and how they should be utilized within corporate worship. Therefore the utilization of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the main thrust of 1 Corinthians 14, not the form of corporate worship. That is only incidental to the utilization of the gifts, hence 1 Corinthians 14:39-40 is speaking of the utilization of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not laying down guidelines for corporate worship. In this context, Sherman is right and bigblue is wrong in the opinions they have separately expressed. Sorry, bigblue that your denominational toes have been stomped on, but that is the fate of those who will not let the Holy Spirit teach them the deeper things of God because such things are counter to what their denomination teaches on that subject.

I'm gonna have to read this again (probably a couple of times) but this is probably the best explanation of how denoms get off track and stay there, and explaining the gifts that I have ever read. And I'm CoC and we even don't believe in speaking in tongues..........well I'm not sure if "I" do or not, but the CoC certainly doesn't.......................

I knew there was something about you I recognized; fellow CofC victim.

Not trying to derail this topic, but I don't consider myself a victmin of anything Rufus!

[HisMindinme]

I am happy to be of service to those who feel it necessary to criticize my personal experiences.

Is this "Martyrdom" above coming from the Mind of Christ?

If you will check, you will find that the majority of those who have been my strongest critics are, for want of a better term "recovering Pentecostals" who have an axe to grind concerning the "slain in the Spirit" phenomenon that is so blatantly abused within Pentecostal circles.

Personally, I have no axe to grind. However, I do agree that "slain in the Spirit" is abused. Not only is it abused, but is itself a mostly invented vehicle designed to bring up emotions for the lusts of the flesh to feed on.

I personally have as much use for such fleshly abuses as my critics have, that is none. But the experiences I have had with the Holy Spirit are personal to me. I am not tooting some denomination's horn concerning what they think is the proper definition of being "slain in the Spirit", but rather my own journey with the Holy Spirit.

So, you have your own definition of "slain in the Spirit." Does having your "own version" come out and add up to justification? Whether the version of "slain in the Spirit" has come from you or someone else makes little difference. This is just playing a shell game with the topic, hide and seek, divert and distract. Honestly, what about your source of "slain in the Spirit" is of concern to anyone but you, yourself? I am asking this honestly and don't even need a response to me or anyone else. I am asking this as a question to you for you to answer to and of yourself -- if you choose to hear and answer: your call, your business, your choice.

As a matter of fact, in my 48 years as a Born-Again Christian, I have found myself on the floor only once when the power of God hit me and I was unable to continue to stand. So, I am not dropping out needlessly or repeatedly, as is so often the case in Pentecostal circles.

This is starting to add up now: Distancing. First, you put up a very strong defense of "slain in the Spirit" and now you're carefully backing away from the matter. You backed away from a denominational version. You've shielded and protected your view with "this is my personal experience, how dare you say it is wrong!" Now, your playing "I've been saved a long time" card -- AND -- the "I've only done this once" card. Oh yes, let's not forget the negative description of those who've stated a flat disavowment of "slain in the Spirit" as "critics."

You know -- the more I develop this list, the stranger and more difficult it looks to me. I am in DEEP danger of applying an Ad Hominem attack my own self towards you dear brother, so I am going to consider what I am writing here with a greater care. I don't want to attack YOU as the means of dispelling your message. I merely point out some things for you to do some self-examination -- if so you so choose.

I will state flatly: Your message of support for "slain in the Spirit" as a biblical practice in my small view is shakey at best and I am left with a single question: What does Jesus think of it? How do I know from scripture what Jesus thinks of the practice in typical modern Pentecostal circles?

I am not tossing out the matter completely either. I do think that such a thing can happen. My caution comes from seeing the 99% perceived abuse of the matter and the lack of direct reference in the New Testament letters and gospels to this being a common part of the gathering church.

What I have posted is simply my experiences and the explanations for my experiences that I have found in God's Word, nothing more, nothing less.

Ahhhhh ... HERE is the crucibal! You have just stated that you go to the Word of God to looking for explanations for your experiences -- Vs. -- letting the Word of God discern your experiences. THIS is the basis of twisting the scripture to fit what the flesh wants to feed its lusts on! I will not apologize if that seems harsh and hard for you to read and digest. You've said it. You seek explanations for your experiences in the Word of God. You don't start with the Word of God and the Mind of Christ, you start with your experience and then traverse the scripture on a fishing expedition for scriptures to "back it up."

Could I be wrong? Of course I could be, but I sincerely don't think so and none of my critics have said anything that would change my mind.

Could you? Yeah -- I think you are. You might sincerely think you're NOT wrong. However, I know my own flesh and how self-deceptive I have been and still am. Part of me is free in the Mind of Christ in me and part of me is still self-deceived (the greater part is my estimation of it). I am in that process of the Lord revealing my self-deception to me and the Spirit of God building in me the Mind of Christ bit by bit, part by part and so on. I think the same thing is true of you as well. My deepest thought to communicate to you right here is this: BE SUSPICIOUS OF YOUR OWN THOUGHTS!

Do what Paul said: Examine your own self and judge your own self: NOT just what you believe. You MUST see how you work and how you self-deceive. If you can understand your own mechanism of self-deception THEN you'll be able to discern when the Mind of Christ comes to you and in you by the Spirit of God.

My own estimation is: It seems quite apparent that on the matter of "slain in the Spirit" you are off the rails. Now -- that said -- there's only several possibilities: 1) Neither of us have the Mind of Christ on the matter, 2) One of us has the Mind of Christ on the Matter and the other does not. Again, the best thing to do for us BOTH is for us to BOTH be suspicious of what we think. Some part of what we think is food for lust and some part is of the Mind of Christ. Let's start with the "food for lust" part and really be honest with it. Seeing that, then prayerfully seek the Mind of Christ IN THE WORD of God and see what He thinks about "slain in the Spirit."

CAUTION: Avoid "this is what I feel" about it. Feelings are from thoughts, thoughts from the mind and IF from our natural mind, then that is ENSLAVED and worthless. Treat it as such!

Let's discern together. I don't take this lightly. I write this much to you because I consider it deeply important and not a waste of time.

Please take my posts for what they are, my earnest desire to hear my Heavenly Father on subjects that I run accross in my journey down the path that Jesus has blazed. I want to share them with others who are seeking just as I have been and still do the wonders of the Born-Again life in Jesus.

I do see your earnestness! I see your heartfelt longing for the Mind of Christ in you. It rings loud and clear in your words as your write them and I am reading them. The Spirit of God is bearing witness in me of it. Even here, I am careful to not put too much emotional content because I know my flesh and the lusts of it are waiting to feed, so I restrain. Nevertheless -- I see the sincerity of your heart towards the matter and I am thankful to the Lord Jesus for it in you. My prayer is that you gain more and more in seeing the mechanism of how you (how we all) deceive yourself, learn how that works first -- and then to see clearly when the Mind of Christ is delivered in you (born again).

[damo1]

damo1

very intresting reading in the last 2 threads phil,2.12 i do understand were you are comming from as i came into an orthadox charasmatic penticostal church and this was all new to me just out of jail and sitting im my first service the messege i heard was on lazuras and the rich man comming back to what i am trying to say i did not acept this with face value i took my time to go over what gods word had to say on this as what i saw with my own eyes sort of freaked me out but as i alowed the holy spirit to deal with what he was bringinning to the surface i began to seek god and i sort of prayed and said lord if this is something i should be accepting please let me walk freely and receive what ever you want to pass on to me

i do not want to fight those with in or get in biblical arguments and find my self having to explaine why i am not jumping in the deep end

i saw things that i never saw like the prophetic word being preached in such passion to were sevral worshipped in the spirit to were i saw people who were being prayed for fall on the floor i heard people crying i heard sevral saying have mercy on me lord to were one women was screaming like in pain as i sat at the back and watched what was happening i thought to my self what have i gotten my self into my friend who was with the salvation army sat next to me as she had her uniform they were and told me not to freak out just let the holy spirit minister to you as she could see that he was doing this as sevral times i wanted to cry but i was holding this back as one worship song realy got to me its your blood and the power of your love from hill song

i felt like some one was pulling at my heart i could not move as at one stage i wanted to walk out and have a cigaret as i had yet not given my heart to god and i was only just out of jail i could not even do this yet when the alter cal was called i found my self down the front and being prayed over by an x alcaholic who was 3 acting pastor

as i settled with the church i began to see that it was sno point putting up a wall or fighting this as my spiritual mentors who also took me into their home were encouraging me hear is were it al changed for me i found my self with my hands lifted up towards heaven and its like i felt some one saying let me be me do not fight me damien its ok

i was very hard headed and this is something god wanted me to give up to him and yes i also read the bible to see if this is off god and had the scripture verses i came across marked and written down in my journal and phil.2.12 you are right those that have been wounded or were there prayers have not been answered seem to be very bitter

i have learnt one thing let the holy spirit have full reign in my life and let the holy spirit guide me when it comes to such things like what is being talked on in this topic the way i see when god does decide to judge the whole world what is hidden wil be bought to the surface and hear we will see this for our selves

what i do not like when topics like this start on worthy its like apples and oranges people like to put lables on people and its men like my self who are open to gods word and believe what is said is of god are having to always explaine why we are the way we are

i can get on with both camps those who are traditional i have no right to sit in on judgment on them and say you should be were i am in my own walk when i am around penticostals and those who are apostolic or charasmatic i feel like i am at home as i can be my self around my brothers and sisters in the lord who are like me as i do not have to be sensative or when it comes to praying i do not need to read from a book to guide me but when i find my self in a tradtional church i respect how these people worship god and how the services are run even though its hard having to control your self i do not want to up set no one so i can sing from a hym book or pray from a book which some traditional churches use even having to put up with a big old organ being played

were i am use to hearing guitars and key boards and base guitars and drums being used in worship and were i see young and old dancing with flags and just not worrying what others might be thinking

i am keeping on topic and i am not trying to pull this my way or am i talking about my self i sat back and i said how to i have an input into this topic and i felt i just needed to be open hear

i wil understand if sevral do not agree with what i have to say its cool i also have the right to disagree as well and i wil not force my views on no one or tap one person on the back but phil.2 .12 said something that i can relate to and he explained this better than i could have due to my grammer not being that good but it does not stop me from trying to get my point across and saying how i see this for my self

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[HisMindinme]

We've all seen it I'm sure, through certain pastors like Benny Hinn among many. People falling over like bowling pins. But is this truly a activity of the Holy Spirit? Or is it a new form of deception within the Church? I believe this one is very easy to discern withought even having to go too far into scripture.

The first thing you would want to do is find all the places in scripture that deal with someone falling backwards as is seen today. Here are some verses commonly used:

Jesus said to them, "I am He." And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. Then when He said to them. "I am He," - they drew back and fell to the ground." (John 18:6)

"And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid." But Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and do not be afraid." (Matthew 17:6)

"So I arose and went out into the plain, and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face." (Ezekiel 3:23)

"Then the Lord opened Balaam

[Phil.2:12]

damo1

very intresting reading in the last 2 threads phil,2.12 i do understand were you are comming from as i came into an orthadox charasmatic penticostal church and this was all new to me just out of jail and sitting im my first service the messege i heard was on lazuras and the rich man comming back to what i am trying to say i did not acept this with face value i took my time to go over what gods word had to say on this as what i saw with my own eyes sort of freaked me out but as i alowed the holy spirit to deal with what he was bringinning to the surface i began to seek god and i sort of prayed and said lord if this is something i should be accepting please let me walk freely and receive what ever you want to pass on to me

i do not want to fight those with in or get in biblical arguments and find my self having to explaine why i am not jumping in the deep end

i saw things that i never saw like the prophetic word being preached in such passion to were sevral worshipped in the spirit to were i saw people who were being prayed for fall on the floor i heard people crying i heard sevral saying have mercy on me lord to were one women was screaming like in pain as i sat at the back and watched what was happening i thought to my self what have i gotten my self into my friend who was with the salvation army sat next to me as she had her uniform they were and told me not to freak out just let the holy spirit minister to you as she could see that he was doing this as sevral times i wanted to cry but i was holding this back as one worship song realy got to me its your blood and the power of your love from hill song

i felt like some one was pulling at my heart i could not move as at one stage i wanted to walk out and have a cigaret as i had yet not given my heart to god and i was only just out of jail i could not even do this yet when the alter cal was called i found my self down the front and being prayed over by an x alcaholic who was 3 acting pastor

as i settled with the church i began to see that it was sno point putting up a wall or fighting this as my spiritual mentors who also took me into their home were encouraging me hear is were it al changed for me i found my self with my hands lifted up towards heaven and its like i felt some one saying let me be me do not fight me damien its ok

i was very hard headed and this is something god wanted me to give up to him and yes i also read the bible to see if this is off god and had the scripture verses i came across marked and written down in my journal and phil.2.12 you are right those that have been wounded or were there prayers have not been answered seem to be very bitter

i have learnt one thing let the holy spirit have full reign in my life and let the holy spirit guide me when it comes to such things like what is being talked on in this topic the way i see when god does decide to judge the whole world what is hidden wil be bought to the surface and hear we will see this for our selves

what i do not like when topics like this start on worthy its like apples and oranges people like to put lables on people and its men like my self who are open to gods word and believe what is said is of god are having to always explaine why we are the way we are

i can get on with both camps those who are traditional i have no right to sit in on judgment on them and say you should be were i am in my own walk when i am around penticostals and those who are apostolic or charasmatic i feel like i am at home as i can be my self around my brothers and sisters in the lord who are like me as i do not have to be sensative or when it comes to praying i do not need to read from a book to guide me but when i find my self in a tradtional church i respect how these people worship god and how the services are run even though its hard having to control your self i do not want to up set no one so i can sing from a hym book or pray from a book which some traditional churches use even having to put up with a big old organ being played

were i am use to hearing guitars and key boards and base guitars and drums being used in worship and were i see young and old dancing with flags and just not worrying what others might be thinking

i am keeping on topic and i am not trying to pull this my way or am i talking about my self i sat back and i said how to i have an input into this topic and i felt i just needed to be open hear

i wil understand if sevral do not agree with what i have to say its cool i also have the right to disagree as well and i wil not force my views on no one or tap one person on the back but phil.2 .12 said something that i can relate to and he explained this better than i could have due to my grammer not being that good but it does not stop me from trying to get my point across and saying how i see this for my self

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

Bless you, Damien, for you sharing your thoughts and experiences with us. Good writing skills, including grammer and vocabulary, are nice but you don't need them to get an idea across. Even the poorest in writing skills can get their information across if we readers just take our time and read the article in the spirit it was written. So, keep up the good work, Damien. You are making an impact.

[OneLight]

HisMindinme,

Also, I will challenge you on the

[HisMindinme]

HisMindinme,

Also, I will challenge you on the

[HisMindinme]

HisMindinme,

Also, I will challenge you on the

[OneLight]

HisMindinme,

Also, I will challenge you on the