Emily~Anne Posted January 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2008 Mental illness causing medical symptoms does not mean that the mental illness is caused by something medical. For example, last September, my dog died. This caused me to become depressed. It also caused me to lose my appetite, throw up alot, lose wieght and suffer severe migraines. But it was all caused by grieving. Someone trying to sell a drug would probably say it was a chemical imbalance in my brain. Really it was an emotional imbalance. Same thing, but doesnt sound all fancy. I know depression can really hurt and make one sick, and if I would have stayed depressed even after much prayer and time with the Lord, I would have sought Christian psychiatric help and possibly even medication. Fortunately I was able to recover. Then you have your post-partum depression, which really is caused by things happening in the body and not from outside factors. There really is no blanket statement anyone can accurately make for any mental illness. I do think the term 'mental illness' while very valid, may be a tad overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Mental illness causing medical symptoms does not mean that the mental illness is caused by something medical. Shalom Emily Anne, That's circular reasoning and really not what we're talking about here. The point is you CAN'T prove it's NOT caused by something medical. So telling someone to "repent" of their disorder is wrong. They may not be able to do anything about their condition. I do think the term 'mental illness' while very valid, may be a tad overrated. Your opinion. Mine differs and the key is, it IS valid. I don't really care to argue semantics. Let's discuss the heart of this thread, not the surface. How does what you're arguing relate to the OP Emily Anne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily~Anne Posted January 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2008 How does what you're arguing relate to the OP Emily Anne? Sorry, I was responding to your posts in this thread. Sounds like you and I agree a blanket statement for all mental illness cannot be made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Sounds like you and I agree a blanket statement for all mental illness cannot be made? Shalom Emily Anne, Absolutely. That's what I've been saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamiam Posted January 6, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 188 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2008 I agree whole-heartedly that we must love them and have INFINITE patience with them. NO-ONE knows what it is like in their heads for those who suffer, unless they have had the same thing themselves. However, I do believe too that we need to lovingly confront them about wrong choices (I too speak from experience of a family member). It doesn't always work though, and in that case we need to GO ON loving!! Shalom NorthernLass, Exactly amen. In the OP I said: Do we love them? Bear with them? Forgive them? Help them get more of Jesus, the Word, prayer? Tell them the truth of what they are doing? (most are unaware and if they are aware, they are usually unable to stop the behavior) Do we try to help them by being patient with them, even when their behavior hurts us or damages us? Do we love them as Jesus loves them and tells us to love them? We must not condone or enable sinful behavior. We must lovingly tell them the truth from Scripture if they are sinning, but we must understand that sometimes these Christians are unaware and unable to control their behavior without help. So glad this has been moved to a general discussion so I can post. I'm new and didn't get it why I couldn't add to the narcissism thread. This is a meaty subject, isn't it? Re narcissism, it is a personality disorder, not necessarily a mental illness. Autism and down's syndrome are physical conditions with behavioral manifestations, but don't really fall into mental illness category. I have a friend of thirty years who is convinced that she battles demons, real demons, and explains her struggles that way. I know that she was raped by her father as a child, molested by her brother and emotionally abandoned by her mother. So there you are. Is this demonic, mental illness or a somewhat expected fallout given the trauma of her young life? Maybe it is a little bit of each. I know that she has suffered tremendously and her life has been hard. She deserves much more than simplistic judgments and A causes B analysis. Re the narcissism blog, I wanted to point out that there are three groups of personality disorders and narcissism is within one of the groups. It's interesting to read characteristics of all of the disorders and really make your head spin! I am touched by the grace and wisdom of some of you who have suffered so much. Grace and peace, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily~Anne Posted January 7, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2008 Pamiam, very enlightening post, thank you. When you have 100 posts, you should be able to post in the Controversial Issues area. meanwhile, I am curious as to what is the difference between mental illness and personality disorder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 7, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Pamiam, very enlightening post, thank you. When you have 100 posts, you should be able to post in the Controversial Issues area. meanwhile, I am curious as to what is the difference between mental illness and personality disorder? Shalom Emily Anne, Examining the difference in terminology is really off topic. It doesn't matter what you call it as far as the OP topic. The issue is how should we treat ill people? My topic here deals with a wider range of mental illnesses and what should be our Biblical response to A CHRISTIAN with a mental illness and they display sinful, selfish and even destructive behavior. Do we blame them? Do we condemn them? Do we accuse them? Do we shun them? Do we treat them as unrepentant sinners? OR Do we love them? Bear with them? Forgive them? Help them get more of Jesus, the Word, prayer? Tell them the truth of what they are doing? (most are unaware and if they are aware, they are usually unable to stop the behavior) Do we try to help them by being patient with them, even when their behavior hurts us or damages us? Do we love them as Jesus loves them and tells us to love them? My friends, I have first-hand experience dealing with Christians with mental illness and have seen what some Christians do with their judgment and condemnation. I believe that is NOT the Biblical response. Ask yourself, should Christians treat Christians with mental illness any differently than a Christian with any OTHER type of illness, say diabetes or cancer? Sometimes, the cause of the person's mental illness is physical / chemical. Sometimes it is spiritual. Sometimes it is a combination. The point is, as with all things, we cannot see the person's heart, only their actions and if we judge them to be unrepentant sinners when in fact, they have a chemical imbalance and need medication, we are wrongly judging them. I believe we need to love these people and try (if we are able) to get them help. If they are saved and know Jesus, we should help them get into the Word and a regular prayer life with accountability. Perhaps Christian counseling and/or medication may help. Most of all, WE Christians need to love them and bear with them, not turn our backs on them, shun them or accuse them of being unrepentant sinners. G-d knows the heart, we don't. Our responsibility is to love. Matthew 22: 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen C. Posted January 7, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 662 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1960 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Greetings~I truly sympathize with all who suffer with any kind of illness. That includes mental illness whether it be bi-polar to manic depression. Not ALL mental illness is clinically correct in diagnoses. I believe that we have an epidemic of hurting people who are not getting the full truth. All these new clinical mental illness labels actually send warning bells off to me.. Too much man and no spiritual discernment in counseling and I include a lot of the so called "christian counseling" (probably get in trouble for that) Not all chemical imbalance is going to be healed by medication.. Sometimes there is a spirituall root..... undealt with emotional issues. Since we are soooo good about telling people that "forgive them and forget it" when it comes to how to move forward. That is really the worse thing to do to someone who has come from a dysfunctional traumatic background/lifestyle. I would venture to say a lot of christianese mental distress are manifestations of this bad teaching in church..(go ahead and shoot me.. someone here will get the idea and dig in to find help) Contrary to popular belief this teaching is NOT labeling those with these areas of bondage as "sinners". It is compassion, not judgement. Judgement leaves them in their issues and does nothing... Those that are "born" with obvious brain damage and nurological disorders are not what I am addresssing here. I empathize with all those who suffer and those who suffer along with them.. Blessings, Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 9, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Shalom, Another example in my life I thought about today. There is a precious sister in my LifeGroup who has severe OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder). She longs to free of her behavior, but she cannot control it. In fact, she does it without thinking about it and only sees the results. She picks at her face until she is a bloody pulpy mess. Then, she is so embarrassed that she won't let anyone see her. People have told her to just "repent of her sin" and she has tried as she says she loves Jesus. However, this disease is beyond her control and it has nothing to do with just repenting of sin. She has other self-destructive behavior as well. As the Body of Messiah, we are to love her, encourage her, try to get her medical help and accept her in the love of Jesus. Not rebuke her or tell her to just repent and she won't cut herself again. That's not possible! She's ill and needs our help as well as our love. That is what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen C. Posted January 9, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 662 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1960 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Shalom, Another example in my life I thought about today. There is a precious sister in my LifeGroup who has severe OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder). She longs to free of her behavior, but she cannot control it. In fact, she does it without thinking about it and only sees the results. She picks at her face until she is a bloody pulpy mess. Then, she is so embarrassed that she won't let anyone see her. People have told her to just "repent of her sin" and she has tried as she says she loves Jesus. However, this disease is beyond her control and it has nothing to do with just repenting of sin. She has other self-destructive behavior as well. As the Body of Messiah, we are to love her, encourage her, try to get her medical help and accept her in the love of Jesus. Not rebuke her or tell her to just repent and she won't cut herself again. That's not possible! She's ill and needs our help as well as our love. That is what this thread is about. Vickilynn~ I am not advocating "just repentance:. In healing ministry you go beyond that and cast it out.. whatever it is called. Have you tried this with this Sister?? Blessings, Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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