David of Derby Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 780 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1983 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Again, we're not dealing with rational people. If a country surrenders unconditionally, you can impose any terms you want on them. Or just annex them. Whatever works, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Well, I wouldn't be too quick to to poke fun at the Iranians. Sure, a few tiny boats zooming at the huge ships seems like shooting spitballs. But in reading the article, they dumped some packages in the water. What was in those packages? Recall that it wasn't a big ship that blew a hole in the USS Cole, and they didn't even sink the ship - yet look at all the backlash from that incicdent. I'd be wary that they've got something going on up their sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2008 Well, I wouldn't be too quick to to poke fun at the Iranians. Sure, a few tiny boats zooming at the huge ships seems like shooting spitballs. But in reading the article, they dumped some packages in the water. What was in those packages? Recall that it wasn't a big ship that blew a hole in the USS Cole, and they didn't even sink the ship - yet look at all the backlash from that incicdent. I'd be wary that they've got something going on up their sleeve. I also wondered what was in the boxes. I do hope it was nothing biological or chemical that would make the Straight unpassable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David of Derby Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 780 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1983 Share Posted January 8, 2008 They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they rendered the strait impassable. They need that passage as much as anyone else. There was a US military exercise a few years back called the Millennium Challenge. In short, it was about the US forces invading a fictional Persian Gulf country. The red forces were commanded by a retired US Army colonel whose name escapes me at the moment, but who was known for unorthodox methods and generally being a tricky character. One of the stunts he pulled was sinking a Nimitz-class carrier with a motorboat and about a tonne of C4. If they knew what they were about, the Iranians could make life very difficult for the US Navy, but unfortunately for them, the navy is wise to that particular trick now. Or they should be, at any rate. What should really worry anyone looking at this situation is the possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons. I think it's pretty safe to say that if they have them and the US attacks, they will use them. We know the US is willing to use WMDs, they're the only country in the world to do so as yet, so if I was running Iran and the Americans were bearing down on me, I'd have the codes handy. If a war in the middle east went nuclear, well, God help us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I have an idea what was in those boxes and I am almost certain the U.S. military KNOWS what was in those boxes. The mere fact that we know there were boxes tossed in their path suggests they also investigated those boxes. Knowing how muslims love to use terror as their main weapon the boxes probably contained the part of a persons body that is above the shoulders. I know it's a bit graphic but thats how terror works. I was reminded of the movie SEVEN when they mentioned boxes. The U.S.S Cole was rammed by a boat full of explosives and I'm sure if they wanted to damage the ships they would have done so and in a similar fashion. The boxes had to contain a message of some sort. I certain of that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted January 8, 2008 It's very important that either we or Israel destroy Iran's nuclear weapons development program. Once they posess those weapons the stakes become much higher and Israel's existence becomes less certain. If we were to have a war with Iran and they had WMD's the threat to our military will be substantial, it's absolutely critical that Iran does not posess those weapons. They are playing chicken with our warships in their little cigar boats. It's obvious the Commander in Chief of the Iranian military doesn't have the discipline, maturity or morality to posess such devastating weapons. I don't think the Iranians were dropping bombs into the water. This is their idea of psychological warfare, it's quite primitive. They are either trying to keep us guessing about their intentions, or provoking us into a confrontation that they can then condemn us for and use for propaganda. Guess who else uses the tactics of provokation and condemnation? The "palestinians," Iran is testing the waters and seeing what we will allow them to get away with. They will keep pushing the envelope until we show them our boundaries, then they will skirt along them and hope we attack them. They want to garner world-wide sympathy for themselves and condemnation for us. Just like Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I have an idea what was in those boxes and I am almost certain the U.S. military KNOWS what was in those boxes. . . . If there were body parts in those boxes, I would think that would tend to make us more mad than afraid, don't you think? (Then again, I'm not a liberal.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,867 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,122 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/23/1964 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 They probably would be laid waste, with those trigger-happy Israelis sitting on a nuclear arsenal supplied by the US. The same US that actively tried to stop the UK from developing nuclear weapons of our own. Worth remembering, that is. I agree with you to a certain extent, David. Trigger happy Israelis....trigger happy Americans.....the Iran/Contra affair under Thatcher..... (let's not forget the trigger happy muslims.........and Nazi's here........ok? ) But ultimately, I am on the side of Israel......even if it means opposing my own national identity. Since you admit that you value another state over your own, you should immigrate to Israel. That way you will never be guilty of treason. Although, since you are a Christian Israel doesn't really want you. http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?...em&idx=1658 OK.....allow me to clarify somewhat.... I am not a military person. But if my country became locked in a war with Israel, and I had to choose which side to join up on, I would join up on the side of Israel. Not as an actual combatant, probably something like the Medical corps or some other support service. I absolutely would not partake in any attack on Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheChief Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 "Recall that it wasn't a big ship that blew a hole in the USS Cole, and they didn't even sink the ship" - That was a VERY close thing, and she almost went down several times due to progressive flooding. I think it was about 700 pounds or so of explosives, right near a main engineering space (lots of open area for water to get into). "One of the stunts he pulled was sinking a Nimitz-class carrier with a motorboat and about a tonne of C4." Not saying this is impossible, I would find it very farfetched. It would make a big hole, but the aircraft carrier is designed with a "double bottom" to absorb the effects of torpedoes with similar sized explosive payloads. Most of the missiles the ex-Soviet military had assigned for use against our carrier battlegroups had warheads of 1,000 kilos (2,200 pounds) or better, and a large number were assigned to one "flattop." Carriers are (further) designed to take on up to 125% of their own weight in water before sinking; couple this with over 2,000 compartments (most watertight) and you can see the difficulty in one 1-ton bomb sinking a 1,052 foot warship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2008 "Recall that it wasn't a big ship that blew a hole in the USS Cole, and they didn't even sink the ship" - That was a VERY close thing, and she almost went down several times due to progressive flooding. I think it was about 700 pounds or so of explosives, right near a main engineering space (lots of open area for water to get into). OK, you got me. But that wasn't the point I was trying to get at. The terrorists punched a hole in just one ship, and yes sadly some lives were lost, but look at the ramifications of that one act. My assessment is that the terrorists got out of the act what they wanted, or at least close to it. So what were these Iranians planning? Was this a test run? Were t hey trying to create an incident before Pres. Bush arrives in the Mid East? Are they planning on more things? I do not think it wise to laugh off the incident as, "What stupid thing were they thinking?" It would be wiser to treat this as an act of strategy that we had better keep on top of. You know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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