What part of the body rises with Jesus?

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Y'all,

We had an interesting discussion yesterday in our church group. The topic is death and "One Minute After You Die" as a Christian and the text was "Absent from the Body, Present with the L-rd."

2 Corinthians 5

8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I KNOW we had a discussion on this recently, so please don't direct me there.

I'm asking a sub-question of WHAT part of the Body rises with Jesus?

Ok, here's the premise:

Mankind is Body Spirit and Soul.

What part dies? The Body.

What part goes to be with Jesus at the moment of death? The Soul or Spirit?

(PLEASE DON'T DEBATE WHETHER WE SLEEP AFTER DEATH! That's not what I'm asking. The premise pf this OP is that part of us go to be with Jesus at the moment of death, WHICH is it? Soul or Spirit? Please don't debate the premise!!

Then, when the dead in Messiah shall rise, WHAT shall rise, the glorified body? The Soul? The Spirit?

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17T hen we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Please give Biblical references. Thanks so much!!!

[Phil.2:12]

It is our spirit that goes to be with our Lord upon our demise. And how do I know? Because Jesus (in John 4:24) said that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" Therefore it is our spirit that enters His home since it is a spiritual abode, not a soulish or physical one. As for the glorified body part, the only thing I have to go on in Scripture is the apparent physical body that Jesus demonstrated after the Ressurection. A physical body that was not bound by the physical laws of our universe, for it passed right through a solid object, a wall in the room where everybody was present (except Thomas). Thus two objects, a solid wall and an apparent physical body, occupied the exact same space at the exact same time while Jesus was passing through the wall, against the laws of Physics. This happened not once, but twice, the second time when Thomas came back into the room. He used the door, however.

It is our spirit that receives Jesus at our request, our spirit that is supposed to mature so that, in the spiritual world we begin to look more and more like Jesus, and it is our spirit that ascends to Heaven to be with our Heavenly Father, our blessed Savior and that wonderful Teacher, the Holy Spirit. I don't fully understand the "glorified body" thing yet, guess I'll just have to wait until I get to Heaven to know what the glorified body is all about.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Vickilynn -

Answering your question requires a common vocabulary (becuase these words are often used differently) so perhaps a definition of each might be appropriate. Not all will agree with this, but it is only required for the purpose of the answer.

Shalom Shlomo! Hey, that sounds neat "Shalom Shlomo"!

Thank you, yes, I am sorry, I should have qualified my terminology.

1) Spirit (pneuma) - that eternal part of us created by God, which uniquely distinguishes us as individuals in His creation, and which is renewed at the moment of salvation.

2) Soul (psyche) - that temporary part of us that can be thought of as our mind, will, emotions, memories, and feelings. It is an extension of our body and is that part which must be renewed daily following the event of salvation.

3) Body (soma) - that temporary physical part of us that we inhabit in God's creation -- our "house" or "tent" -- that is so corrupt that it can never be renewed, but must fall to the ground and die in order to be raised again in a new nature.

Yes. Exactly.

So, you're saying that what is raised according to 1 Thessalonians is a glorified BODY? (number 3)

2 Corinthians 5

8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I'm asking a sub-question of WHAT part of the Body rises with Jesus?

More specifically, what part of US rises with Jesus (if I understand your intent for the phrase "rises with Jesus").

Not what part of the Body, becuase the Body is one of the parts. It is that which we can be "absent from."

Yes, it is our fleshly body that we are absent from, not the Body of the Messiah. Thank you for qualifying your answer.

Then, when the dead in Messiah shall rise, WHAT shall rise,

the glorified body? The Soul? The Spirit?

By the previously stated definitions, the temporary parts, 1) our Body and the extension of the body, our Soul.

OK, just making sure I understand your answer. You are saying that our "spirit" goes to Jesus upon our physical death and our "glorified body" rises according to 1 Thessalonians? Right? The physical body and the soul dies at physical death, right?

OR are you saying our body rises (it must be our glorified body) AND our soul rises when the "dead in Messiah shall rise"?

[Vickilynn]

It is our spirit that goes to be with our Lord upon our demise. And how do I know? Because Jesus (in John 4:24) said that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" Therefore it is our spirit that enters His home since it is a spiritual abode, not a soulish or physical one. As for the glorified body part, the only thing I have to go on in Scripture is the apparent physical body that Jesus demonstrated after the Ressurection. A physical body that was not bound by the physical laws of our universe, for it passed right through a solid object, a wall in the room where everybody was present (except Thomas). Thus two objects, a solid wall and an apparent physical body, occupied the exact same space at the exact same time while Jesus was passing through the wall, against the laws of Physics. This happened not once, but twice, the second time when Thomas came back into the room. He used the door, however.

It is our spirit that receives Jesus at our request, our spirit that is supposed to mature so that, in the spiritual world we begin to look more and more like Jesus, and it is our spirit that ascends to Heaven to be with our Heavenly Father, our blessed Savior and that wonderful Teacher, the Holy Spirit. I don't fully understand the "glorified body" thing yet, guess I'll just have to wait until I get to Heaven to know what the glorified body is all about.

Shalom Phil,

Thank you for your reply, but I'm sorry, I don't quite understand your answer.

You said our spirit goes to Jesus upon our physical death, right?

Then, what part of us rises when "the dead in Messiah shall rise" according to 1 Thessalonians if our spirit is already with Him?

6For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17T hen we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

[Phil.2:12]

It is our spirit that goes to be with our Lord upon our demise. And how do I know? Because Jesus (in John 4:24) said that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" Therefore it is our spirit that enters His home since it is a spiritual abode, not a soulish or physical one. As for the glorified body part, the only thing I have to go on in Scripture is the apparent physical body that Jesus demonstrated after the Ressurection. A physical body that was not bound by the physical laws of our universe, for it passed right through a solid object, a wall in the room where everybody was present (except Thomas). Thus two objects, a solid wall and an apparent physical body, occupied the exact same space at the exact same time while Jesus was passing through the wall, against the laws of Physics. This happened not once, but twice, the second time when Thomas came back into the room. He used the door, however.

It is our spirit that receives Jesus at our request, our spirit that is supposed to mature so that, in the spiritual world we begin to look more and more like Jesus, and it is our spirit that ascends to Heaven to be with our Heavenly Father, our blessed Savior and that wonderful Teacher, the Holy Spirit. I don't fully understand the "glorified body" thing yet, guess I'll just have to wait until I get to Heaven to know what the glorified body is all about.

Shalom Phil,

Thank you for your reply, but I'm sorry, I don't quite understand your answer.

You said our spirit goes to Jesus upon our physical death, right?

Then, what part of us rises when "the dead in Messiah shall rise" according to 1 Thessalonians if our spirit is already with Him?

6For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17T hen we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

That has to be the "Glorified body" (whatever that is), for the spirit has already gone (at the time of our death) and the soul really has no part with us in Heaven. Remember, it is the soul that fights with our spirit (according to Paul in Romans), so why would it be in Heaven? In the final analysis, the soul is the loser in the body, soul, spirit triangle.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

Interesting replies!! Thank you BOTH so much!

We all agree that upon our physical death as a Christian, our spirit goes immediately to Jesus.

When all the "dead in Messiah shall rise" what rises is our "glorified body" (whatever that is, we don't know yet)

BUT, now Shlomo and Phil, you both disagree on what happens to our soul. Can y'all help me understand where the soul goes according to the Scriptures? Shlomo says with Jesus, Phil says it died with the body.

[Vickilynn]

shlomo states that, as an extension of the Body, the Soul dies when the Body dies and is recreated when the Body is resurrected.

Shalom Shlomo,

So you're saying that the body AND soul are resurrected and rise?

Can you please show me where you find that? All I see is glorified body, I can't find a reference to soul being resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection Body

35But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" 36You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Mystery and Victory

50I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood) cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

"Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where is your victory?

O death, where is your sting?"

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[MeCajunboy]

Shalom Y'all,

We had an interesting discussion yesterday in our church group. The topic is death and "One Minute After You Die" as a Christian and the text was "Absent from the Body, Present with the L-rd."

2 Corinthians 5

8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I KNOW we had a discussion on this recently, so please don't direct me there.

I'm asking a sub-question of WHAT part of the Body rises with Jesus?

Ok, here's the premise:

Mankind is Body Spirit and Soul.

What part dies? The Body.

What part goes to be with Jesus at the moment of death? The Soul or Spirit?

(PLEASE DON'T DEBATE WHETHER WE SLEEP AFTER DEATH! That's not what I'm asking. The premise pf this OP is that part of us go to be with Jesus at the moment of death, WHICH is it? Soul or Spirit? Please don't debate the premise!!

Then, when the dead in Messiah shall rise, WHAT shall rise, the glorified body? The Soul? The Spirit?

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17T hen we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Please give Biblical references. Thanks so much!!!

Vicki, if you don't want us to debate anything, Simply don't ask the question! Just make a statement and give the support with scripture as you did!

Thank you for scriptural support!

Cajun

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Y'all,

We had an interesting discussion yesterday in our church group. The topic is death and "One Minute After You Die" as a Christian and the text was "Absent from the Body, Present with the L-rd."

2 Corinthians 5

8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

I KNOW we had a discussion on this recently, so please don't direct me there.

I'm asking a sub-question of WHAT part of the Body rises with Jesus?

Ok, here's the premise:

Mankind is Body Spirit and Soul.

What part dies? The Body.

What part goes to be with Jesus at the moment of death? The Soul or Spirit?

(PLEASE DON'T DEBATE WHETHER WE SLEEP AFTER DEATH! That's not what I'm asking. The premise pf this OP is that part of us go to be with Jesus at the moment of death, WHICH is it? Soul or Spirit? Please don't debate the premise!!

Then, when the dead in Messiah shall rise, WHAT shall rise, the glorified body? The Soul? The Spirit?

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17T hen we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Please give Biblical references. Thanks so much!!!

Vicki, if you don't want us to debate anything, Simply don't ask the question! Just make a statement and give the support with scripture as you did!

Thank you for scriptural support!

Cajun

Shalom C,

HUH? You are seriously confused Bro.

Please READ my posts. I am ASKING questions about SPECIFIC things and asking that the thread not get off on rabbit trails of side debates.

I've been on message boards for many years and it happens over and over, people get all tied up debating things that take away from the topic. I was asking people to answer the OP questions, not question the premise of the OP questions, which is perfectly permissible.

If you don't like my posts, please feel free to skip them rather than bothering to reply how YOU want me post.

Thank you!

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Y'all!

My pastor responded to these questions:

Hi Vickilynn,

Great question. Here