ted Posted June 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Lol Nope. My Orange peel is thick! t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 16, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Heloo . . . Bluesun??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted June 16, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted June 16, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2004 I am amazed people did not pick up on this quote from bluesun Well, I'm glad that you did Adstar. Let's wait for a response. I have a really hard time reading these quotes the way Bluesun wants to interpret them. I mean, at face value, so many of them could EASILY be taken as "we must wage war". Her adding of 'self-defence' was blatant and the idea of 'persecution' can easily be interpretted in many ways. I'm so glad Jesus used very specific examples when He spoke. If someone hits you turn the other cheek and let them hit the other one. If a person does you wrong, you are to forgive them how many times? 70x7. He was very clear. Even at absolute BEST, this religion states fight those who fight you and if they stop, then you can stop too. What is so peaceful about this religion? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 624 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2004 What is so peaceful about this religion? I don't get it. I've yet to find anything peaceful about any religion. Religion is like anything else, when taken to extremes it becomes a detriment to society and everyone around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted June 16, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2004 Religion is like anything else, when taken to extremes it becomes a detriment to society and everyone around it. What can be detrimental to society if you were to take the teaching of Christ and follow them to the extreme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted June 16, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted June 16, 2004 I am amazed people did not pick up on this quote from bluesun "it was a declared war against oppression, persecution and rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " Who is God messenger according to islam? why muhammed of course. So if you are a rejecter of Gods supposed messenger then it is ordained ok for muslims to fight against you. I am a rejecter of muhammed therefore bluesun is ordered to fight me. All Praise The Ancient Of Days Or an Infidel, therefore let the Jihad begin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Dear nebula, sorry that you had to wait a bit longer for my reply. I don't have regular access to the net at the moment (as i am on holiday). I would like to know, what have either Allah or Muhammad specifically done for you personally? Have have either of them changed your life? Muhammad (pbuh) was just a human being, as you and I, as every messenger sent by God was. He does not have any power. No-one has. All Power belongs to God alone (only He is able to do and create anything, as He already did: Universe, Angels, Jinn, Mankind, parted sea for prophet Moses (pbuh) and his followers when fled from Pharao, etc.) -God informs us in the Koran that only He leads people to the straight path. He lead me to the straight path, alhamdulila (thanks God). -God informs us in the Koran that He will test people's faith in this life (through hardship and comfort), so that He may reward them on the Day of Judgement. He tested me (and hopefully will in the future, insh'Allah (God willing)). -God informs us in the Koran that only He can increase our faith (if we make an effort). He increased my faith substantially. God is God and we are His creation. He created us to worship Him alone. This life is a test for every single human being. God informs us in the Koran that every believer should try to be as near as possible to being perfect in religion: prayer, fasting, charity, giving food/shelter/money to orphans, captives, the needy, travellers; being kind and just, not sinning (i.e. not back-biting, not speaking bad about someone, etc.), telling the truth, even if against ourselves/family/friends/fellow muslims/rich/poor; sincerly repenting for our sins and asking forgiveness, etc. On the Day of Judgement every single person will be rewarded for his/her deeds. This is the time when the believers will be rewarded for their patience, faith, perseverance. i hope you have your question answered. regards, marianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Hallo Adstar, Firstly, the 'fighting' ordained in these verses is addressed to the Muslim collectivity of Medinah( i.e. this verse (as others) is not general in nature) it was a declared war against oppression, persecution and rejection of God's messenger. Therefore, the directive entailed in this verse does not apply to mercenaries and militants, involved in covert and undeclared war. I am amazed people did not pick up on this quote from bluesun "it was a declared war against oppression, persecution and rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " "rejection of God's messenger. " Who is God messenger according to islam? why muhammed of course. So if you are a rejecter of Gods supposed messenger then it is ordained ok for muslims to fight against you. I am a rejecter of muhammed therefore bluesun is ordered to fight me. May I ask why you have completely ignored the fact that the fighting was exlusively ordained for the muslim collectivity of Medinah at that time, i.e. that the directive is in no way general in nature? May I point out that this is not my personal opinion, but what islamic scholars say? I repeat, the directive (to fight in response to the oppression and persecution of the muslims, because they merely said 'we believe that God is One and that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messanger') is not general in nature, i.e. it does in no way apply to muslims living today. If you have time, read up on the life of muhammad (pbuh), not from an anti-muslim website, but from a muslim one or neutral scholars who have studied his life. Muhammad never attacked anyone because they rejected him as the last prophet, only in response to oppression/persecution/war. Any neutral person who has studied his life will state this. regards, marianne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Hallo Artsylady, I responst to your last post: Hi Bluesun:I noticed you keep adding the words "self-defense". Are these words actually in the Koran?What does "until there is no more persecution" mean? To some 'persecution' means that they are not allowed to blast their call to prayer. To some it might be that they are given funny looks for wearing their head coverings. What does this phrase mean exactly. You make it sound like you want it to believe that 'persecution' means that people are trying to kill them but in some verses, it doesn't sound this way at all, like this one. "slay them wherever you find them"???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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