tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I find the whole family order thing so simplistic and foundational. I mean surely we can all agree that things with regard to the family ARE out of order, can't we? If so, couldn't we just as easily see that we need to go back to the drawing board. And as Christians, THAT would have to be God's Word and His Authority with regard to the building blocks of the family. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 Shalom, Let's discuss what Bib and Jackie brought up. The woman who has an abusive husband, a non-Christian husband, NO husband - any thing other than the optimum husband who loves and leads his wife according to the Scriptures. What can we tell them to encourage them and guide them to walk in G-d's ways, even when it's really tough going? Well, I know this verse has been discussed before, but maybe this is a good time to bring it up: 1 Peter 3:1-2 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. The submissive role is not abrogated if the husband is a non-Christian. As for abusive? I don't know. I think an abusive husband speaks to so many things that I do not know where to start. Scripture says "husband love your wives" and an abusive husband is certainly not loving his wife. Shalom Cobalt, Amen! The main thing for us women to realize is what you just posted: The submissive role is not abrogated if the husband is a non-Christian. This is where I think so many people get into trouble. If the MAN is not in his role, then some think that means the woman should step in. Not so! We are to remain in our roles as women, whether or not the man does the right thing. That is something that is hard for some people to grasp, but it is simply that G-d's Word is His Word and will in ALL circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psalmone Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 261 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/15/1970 Share Posted January 24, 2008 The witness of Godly Order is very important. This is what must be sustained, hopefully not with straining but with Joy. When the people lose that sense of honour of God thats when they grope in darkness(scripture not readilly to mind). It is even what is required to 'want' to defend yourself, the Living Word being ALIVE. Godly Order substanciates the Heavenly Vision (in due context). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 Shalom Cobalt, Amen! The main thing for us women to realize is what you just posted: The submissive role is not abrogated if the husband is a non-Christian. This is where I think so many people get into trouble. If the MAN is not in his role, then some think that means the woman should step in. Not so! We are to remain in our roles as women, whether or not the man does the right thing. That is something that is hard for some people to grasp, but it is simply that G-d's Word is His Word and will in ALL circumstances. That has got to be one of the most unscriptural claims I've ever seen. See the three hebrews and firey furnace. Their "role" was to serve the king, but when it came to a matter of sin, they refused, even at the risk of their own lives. So then we see that submission to any earthly authority, regardless of what your interpretation of Pauls' writting means, is not required if that authority is demanding you to support or participate in sinful or unwise behavior. Your "role" is not to submit to a man "whether or not he does the right thing". That's not at all wise. God gave you a brain and a heart of your own, if you would only take the time to believe it. Shalom WSB, Sorry, you're not talking about a marriage when you're using that example. Please, stick to the topic of marriage! G-d gave us His WORD, if only you had the faith to walk in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ddavid from NC Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 196 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,343 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Share Posted January 24, 2008 If you were to remove women from their position in your particular church, what would you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 Shalom Cobalt, Amen! The main thing for us women to realize is what you just posted: The submissive role is not abrogated if the husband is a non-Christian. This is where I think so many people get into trouble. If the MAN is not in his role, then some think that means the woman should step in. Not so! We are to remain in our roles as women, whether or not the man does the right thing. That is something that is hard for some people to grasp, but it is simply that G-d's Word is His Word and will in ALL circumstances. That has got to be one of the most unscriptural claims I've ever seen. See the three hebrews and firey furnace. Their "role" was to serve the king, but when it came to a matter of sin, they refused, even at the risk of their own lives. So then we see that submission to any earthly authority, regardless of what your interpretation of Pauls' writting means, is not required if that authority is demanding you to support or participate in sinful or unwise behavior. Your "role" is not to submit to a man "whether or not he does the right thing". That's not at all wise. God gave you a brain and a heart of your own, if you would only take the time to believe it. I do not understand the devils advocate part you seem to be playing.. I do not recall anyone saying a woman was supposed to sin because her husband told her too.. where did that come from..?? The part of Eve provoking Adam to sin I do recall that being posted..... As a matter of fact ,if I think about it, men are constantly being warned in Scripture about unsavory women causing them to sin.. But since the subject is now brought up ... I would not sin if my husband told me to.. Neither would anyone else here.. I don't think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 If you were to remove women from their position in your particular church, what would you have? Shalom David, In keeping with the request of the OP and staying on the topic of marriage, if the women were removed, they would stay at home and minister to their family, under their husband's authority!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 God gave you a brain and a heart of your own, if you would only take the time to believe it. throw away the bible then and follow your heart. theyre only black letters on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 The Bible clearly teaches that we in fact ARE supposed to rebel against authority when that authority persuades us to sin, or forbids us to serve God in a Biblical manner. Agreed. If there is a choice between obeying God and man, we choose God every time. But, we need to always make sure that when we do disobey the government we are sure that we are doing so because of a clear command from God. Especially since in other sections of scripture we have clear commands to obey the governments and authorities we live under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 We, many years ago for about 5 years, belonged to a church with female deacons, deaconesses they were called. There were many problems in that church. So? I've been to many churches who taught the "men only" doctrine, and they had "many problems" as well. for every problem you can possibly imagine that a female deacon might have caused, I can assure you there is a conjugate problem that a male would have caused. What does that prove? Nothing. I did not make the connection between the problems in the church and women deacons, you did. I simply made a statement, and you assumed I meant that the female deacons caused those problems. Truthfully, the problems were the cause of the Pastor. Clearly, your post was intended to bait me into that response though, based on the context of this thread. A rather deceptive ploy, but whatever. I have anger management problems, you use cheap tactics, so I guess we're even. It is always dangerous to assume you know the motives of another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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