time, times, half a time

[Richard_yaash]

one seven - 7 years- Unfullfilled

This understanding is correct.

I am curious, in light of what you further shared Cardcaptor, which I happen to agree with for the most part. Do you share in the understanding of 'one seven as being unfulfilled'?

For I do not, I view it one continuous prophecy of 'seventy sevens' without a gap. Regrettably, I do not have time currently to discuss this further as I have too many commitments in life currently. However, I would indeed enjoy taking this further and deeper in discussion at some point in the not too distant future.

One thing that I heard from a very wise and knowledgeable teacher is that Daniel and Revelation have nothing to do with each other.

I agree.

[TomPJr]

an excerpt from a book i ran across today called 'behold the beast': (especially note the part i have bolded) what say you?

1. (KJV) Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing [was] true, but the time appointed [was] long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

You can Yahoo confirmation of the first year of Cyrus in Babylon to be 536 BC or the third year of Cyrus to be 533 BC

Toward the end of this prophecy we read:

(KVJ) Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Jews - both Messianic and non-Messianic - translation of the Hebrew idiom "time, times and an half" is somewhat different than most of us Christians may have been taught. Below is the above verse from a version of the Tanach:

Daniel 12:7. And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end. Link to chabad.org (After all, what would Jews know about Hebrew idioms? :-)

If a time is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a time:

2-1/2 "times" = 2500 years. Then 2500 - 533 = 1967 The restoration of the Jews to, and end of the Gentile control of, the holy city, Jerusalem. The end of the "shattering the strength of the holy people". Is this a one "time" wonder?

Hello,

I've done some studying on this...

A time was equivalent to one year -

A time, + times(two times) + 1/2 time = 3 1/2 years

3 1/2 years = 1,260 days, and a day in Bible prophesy = one year, so here we have 1,260 years.

I don't have time to expand right now, but think about it and study.

God bless you.

[Massorite]

an excerpt from a book i ran across today called 'behold the beast': (especially note the part i have bolded) what say you?

1. (KJV) Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing [was] true, but the time appointed [was] long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

You can Yahoo confirmation of the first year of Cyrus in Babylon to be 536 BC or the third year of Cyrus to be 533 BC

Toward the end of this prophecy we read:

(KVJ) Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Jews - both Messianic and non-Messianic - translation of the Hebrew idiom "time, times and an half" is somewhat different than most of us Christians may have been taught. Below is the above verse from a version of the Tanach:

Daniel 12:7. And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end. Link to chabad.org (After all, what would Jews know about Hebrew idioms? :-)

If a time is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a time:

2-1/2 "times" = 2500 years. Then 2500 - 533 = 1967 The restoration of the Jews to, and end of the Gentile control of, the holy city, Jerusalem. The end of the "shattering the strength of the holy people". Is this a one "time" wonder?

That is if a "time, times and an half" is speaking about 1000 years a piece. What if they are speakin g about only one year and they equal only 3 1/2 years. You see the time of the gentiles is not finished. They still control the temple mount and half of Jerusalem.

[Guest KightwithDignity]

There is a major time period that is refered to in the scriptures 7 times. Making this a time of significant importance.

A time, times, and half a time.

A time, times, and the dividing of time

1260 days.

42 months.

These all refer to the same period of time covering 1260 years.

the historical interpretation of this period of time has for over 400 years been taught by protestants to be the time that the power of Papal Rome held sway over the affairs of man. We call this time, the dark ages, when superstition and ignorance kept the average person in spiritual darkness. It is a time when the true christians were martyred for their faith.

For those who may not know much about this period of christian history, there is a book that was once considered compulsory reading. It is Foxes book of martyrs. This is history which protestants no longer teach. Yet it is the root of their existance. You will find out who the antichrist really is. This was taught by all the reformers for over 400 years. The woman and the dragon are both clearly identified.

This was a period of persecution which if they had not been cut short by the great reformation, the true believers might have been destroyed. Read who it was which made war against the remnant of the seed of the woman. Read the price that was paid in blood that you might be free to worship.

[Fez]

Dan 4:32 and you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. And you shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will."

All through Daniel "a period of time" seems to relate to 1 year. The scripture above is but one example.

Again..

Dan 4:16 Let his mind be changed from a man's, and let a beast's mind be given to him; and let seven periods of time pass over him.

And....

Dan 4:23 And because the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, 'Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, in the tender grass of the field, and let him be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven periods of time pass over him,'

And....

Dan 4:25 that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will.

[Fraught]

thanks to all who responded to the post. according to your replies and further study i have made, you're right. much more likely to be the traditionally held belief of 3.5 years.

[Jasher]

This is an old thread but I thought to comment on it. Second post.

The full text reads...

Daniel 12:6-13 (NASB)

And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?"

How long will be the destruction of Israel.

[7] And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.

Literal years. It was the length of time that the city of Jerusalem had confronted the Romans until they had lost the war and were totally destroyed.

[8] As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" [9] And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. [10] "Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

Daniel did not understand the Angel and asked for clarification. The Angel added to his first saying more specifics.

[11] "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. [12] "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days! [13] "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

Of course 1,290 days is also 3 ½ years, but it is a little more specific. Here we have more information to consider. From the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until the daily sacrifice fails will be 3 ½ years or more specifically 1,290 days. Why the Prophet listed the two in reverse order I do not know. From the time that Agrippa II sent his army of 2,000 men to put down the rebellion in Jerusalem until the daily sacrifice failed was 1,290 days. Josephus tells us the day that the daily sacrifice failed was Tamuz 17th 70AD. If you count backwards from Tamuz 17th 1,290 days it brings you to the appearance of Agrippa’s army at Jerusalem. Agrippa’s attempt failed so Nero sent Cestius with the 12th legion to Jerusalem to deal with the riot. This was just a month after Agrippa. The murderous zealots took over the Holy Place in the Temple and that of course was the AoD that was spoken of. The 1,335 days was 45 days after the daily sacrifice had failed. This was to everyone’s shock and surprise when the zealots gave up and surrendered. Josephus said that they could have continued on for quite some time. And so God said he would shorten those days for the elect’s sake and he did. The elect being the people who had found the lord in the city while it was under extreme tribulation. Remember the Christians were gone - escaped to Pella starting with Judea.

THis fits exactly with Matt 24. And there is a lot more to say on the history of this subject.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Jasher

[rollinTHUNDER]

This is an old thread but I thought to comment on it. Second post.

The full text reads...

Daniel 12:6-13 (NASB)

And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?"

How long will be the destruction of Israel.

[7] And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.

Literal years. It was the length of time that the city of Jerusalem had confronted the Romans until they had lost the war and were totally destroyed.

[8] As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" [9] And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. [10] "Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

Daniel did not understand the Angel and asked for clarification. The Angel added to his first saying more specifics.

[11] "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. [12] "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days! [13] "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

Of course 1,290 days is also 3 ½ years, but it is a little more specific. Here we have more information to consider. From the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until the daily sacrifice fails will be 3 ½ years or more specifically 1,290 days. Why the Prophet listed the two in reverse order I do not know. From the time that Agrippa II sent his army of 2,000 men to put down the rebellion in Jerusalem until the daily sacrifice failed was 1,290 days. Josephus tells us the day that the daily sacrifice failed was Tamuz 17th 70AD. If you count backwards from Tamuz 17th 1,290 days it brings you to the appearance of Agrippas army at Jerusalem. Agrippas attempt failed so Nero sent Cestius with the 12th legion to Jerusalem to deal with the riot. This was just a month after Agrippa. The murderous zealots took over the Holy Place in the Temple and that of course was the AoD that was spoken of. The 1,335 days was 45 days after the daily sacrifice had failed. This was to everyones shock and surprise when the zealots gave up and surrendered. Josephus said that they could have continued on for quite some time. And so God said he would shorten those days for the elects sake and he did. The elect being the people who had found the lord in the city while it was under extreme tribulation. Remember the Christians were gone - escaped to Pella starting with Judea.

THis fits exactly with Matt 24. And there is a lot more to say on the history of this subject.

Oh brother where art thou?

Another preterist to the rescue?

Another misguided believer who believes that all prophecy was fulfilled on or before 70AD?

Lots of luck to you when the real tribulation begins.

[Jasher]

This is an old thread but I thought to comment on it. Second post.

The full text reads...

Daniel 12:6-13 (NASB)

And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?"

How long will be the destruction of Israel.

[7] And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.

Literal years. It was the length of time that the city of Jerusalem had confronted the Romans until they had lost the war and were totally destroyed.

[8] As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" [9] And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. [10] "Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

Daniel did not understand the Angel and asked for clarification. The Angel added to his first saying more specifics.

[11] "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. [12] "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days! [13] "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

Of course 1,290 days is also 3 ½ years, but it is a little more specific. Here we have more information to consider. From the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until the daily sacrifice fails will be 3 ½ years or more specifically 1,290 days. Why the Prophet listed the two in reverse order I do not know. From the time that Agrippa II sent his army of 2,000 men to put down the rebellion in Jerusalem until the daily sacrifice failed was 1,290 days. Josephus tells us the day that the daily sacrifice failed was Tamuz 17th 70AD. If you count backwards from Tamuz 17th 1,290 days it brings you to the appearance of Agrippas army at Jerusalem. Agrippas attempt failed so Nero sent Cestius with the 12th legion to Jerusalem to deal with the riot. This was just a month after Agrippa. The murderous zealots took over the Holy Place in the Temple and that of course was the AoD that was spoken of. The 1,335 days was 45 days after the daily sacrifice had failed. This was to everyones shock and surprise when the zealots gave up and surrendered. Josephus said that they could have continued on for quite some time. And so God said he would shorten those days for the elects sake and he did. The elect being the people who had found the lord in the city while it was under extreme tribulation. Remember the Christians were gone - escaped to Pella starting with Judea.

THis fits exactly with Matt 24. And there is a lot more to say on the history of this subject.

Oh brother where art thou?

Another preterist to the rescue?

Another misguided believer who believes that all prophecy was fulfilled on or before 70AD?

Lots of luck to you when the real tribulation begins.

I am not a preterist for your information - this is an Amil view if you are looking for labels. You are right of course - If it comes to the facts of history vs. 21st century western speculation - speculation always supercedes. After all Josephus was only an eyewitness - what good is he?

Edited March 19, 2011 by Jasher

[TomPJr]

Hello everyone and God Bless you all.

There seems to be some great misunderstandings about what a time, times and half of time means. I hope this will help you.

It is actually a prophetic term that the Bible itself explains. In Revelation 12:14, we read these words concerning the same time period,