Axxman Posted February 16, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2008 This thread is basically going to desolve into a free will/ predestination debate...lol. In my opinion the article is right on. For those of you using the verses that claim "the lord is not willing that any should perish" I have a question... Who can resist the will of God? If God "wills" that none should perish then WHY do they perish? Is man's free will stronger than God's will? I don't think so. I SIMPLE look at the context of 2 Peter 3:9 would show that he is speaking about the 'elect.' God is not willing that any of His elect should persish. A mere two verses earlier in 2 Peter 3:7 he speaks of the fire and eternal damnation of ungodly men. You are misusing the entire point of 2nd Peter. The ONLY people who have anything to worry about this article are those who do not know Christ...and quite frankly...they don't have the ability to grasp the meaning because the message of the cross is foolishness to them in the first place. (1 Cor 1:18) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 I know wolves can dress up in sheeps clothing but to even consider the possibility of this rattled me. http://elvis.rowan.edu/~kilroy/CHRISTIA/li...y/whomdoes.html I'm hoping someone will tell me this is a sick joke. Dan Why does God's wrath scare you so? Are you not chosen by Him, thru Him, for Him. We should be so extremely thankful that we ARE chosen and that we won't have to experience God's wrath, for it will surely be a most terrifying place. All the more reason to rejoice in His purposes for us. Even if this author is correct in his interpretation, or some of his interpretation, what difference does it make because you have been called out for a purpose, a very special purpose. YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED FROM IT!! Hell was created for a reason, but not for us. Not having God's love terrifies me because I would go back to who I was without it. As far as being chosen, I'm no theologian but I thought the one thing we own was our own choice. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Well, this could easily develop into a discussion about the myth of God of predestining some to go to hell and some to be saved, but that is really nothing compared to the real problem of the article, and that pertains to the idea that God hates some people and loves others. If we take the Scriptures at face value, it is true that God hates the wicked. There are some people God hates. However, what needs to be made clear is that God's hate is not like the unrightesous hate we humans express. When we hate someone, our hatred is, according to Jesus, equivalent to murder which is against God's law. So it stands to reason that God's "hate" is not the same concept as ours. God does hate, but it is not the carnal "I wish you dead; burn in hell you bum" kind of hate we as humans possess. God hates perfectly, without malice and without any murderous feelings to accompany it, and he can hate and love at the same time; something we cannot do. That is an important part about God's hate the article left out. Unlike the human expression of hate, God's hate does not exclude a person from His love. It is unscriptural to say God that there are people God does not love. God hates those whom he also loves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2008 Not having God's love terrifies me because I would go back to who I was without it. As far as being chosen, I'm no theologian but I thought the one thing we own was our own choice. Dan I agree Dan. Deut. 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live Proverbs 1:29 Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the Lord, Proverbs 8:10 Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold, Isaiah 56:4 For this is what the Lord says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-- Joshua 24:15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbit Pada Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/17/1964 Share Posted February 17, 2008 This thread is basically going to desolve into a free will/ predestination debate...lol. In my opinion the article is right on. For those of you using the verses that claim "the lord is not willing that any should perish" I have a question... Who can resist the will of God? If God "wills" that none should perish then WHY do they perish? Is man's free will stronger than God's will? I don't think so. I SIMPLE look at the context of 2 Peter 3:9 would show that he is speaking about the 'elect.' God is not willing that any of His elect should persish. A mere two verses earlier in 2 Peter 3:7 he speaks of the fire and eternal damnation of ungodly men. You are misusing the entire point of 2nd Peter. The ONLY people who have anything to worry about this article are those who do not know Christ...and quite frankly...they don't have the ability to grasp the meaning because the message of the cross is foolishness to them in the first place. (1 Cor 1:18) agreed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2008 Have you ever considered "why", there was a tree of the "knowledge of good AND evil"? And what took place when mankind partook of it. God could have omitted the creation of it, and had one of only "good". So, think about the purpose of the knowledge of BOTH. There is a reason. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2008 Not according to Jesus: John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains. So you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2008 This thread is basically going to desolve into a free will/ predestination debate...lol. In my opinion the article is right on. For those of you using the verses that claim "the lord is not willing that any should perish" I have a question... Who can resist the will of God? If God "wills" that none should perish then WHY do they perish? Is man's free will stronger than God's will? I don't think so. I SIMPLE look at the context of 2 Peter 3:9 would show that he is speaking about the 'elect.' God is not willing that any of His elect should persish. A mere two verses earlier in 2 Peter 3:7 he speaks of the fire and eternal damnation of ungodly men. You are misusing the entire point of 2nd Peter. The ONLY people who have anything to worry about this article are those who do not know Christ...and quite frankly...they don't have the ability to grasp the meaning because the message of the cross is foolishness to them in the first place. (1 Cor 1:18) agreed... Then why did Eve eat of the forbidden tree? Was it Gods will or Eves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2008 Then why did Eve eat of the forbidden tree? Was it Gods will or Eves? Are you implying that Eve was not one of God's chosen, or that her salvation was affected by eating the fruit? Fact is, people chosen of God do not suddenly become perfect creatures. We still sin. That does not change our eternal standing as God's chosen. Eve sinned for the same reason we all do. It didn't effect whether or not she was one of God's chosen people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2008 Then why did Eve eat of the forbidden tree? Was it Gods will or Eves? Are you implying that Eve was not one of God's chosen, or that her salvation was affected by eating the fruit? Fact is, people chosen of God do not suddenly become perfect creatures. We still sin. That does not change our eternal standing as God's chosen. Eve sinned for the same reason we all do. It didn't effect whether or not she was one of God's chosen people. I was referring tho free will / Gods will. Nobody but God knows who will make it and who won't. We all have our own theories, but the final word is His. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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