Elbit Pada

It's hard when we really, really need God to come thru for us, yet we don't know where He is in what we are experiencing, and which direction He wants us to go in. I tend to follow two truths: 1. Everything God says in His Word is true, because, well ... He said it is. And 2. He says if I honestly seek Him with all my heart, I WILL find Him; for me, its not really about WHAT i'm supposed to do. I find the harder I try to see my way, the 'foggier' it gets. Rather, try to know God more ... and He will reveal to you what He wants you to know and when He wants you to know it. It's really about growing your faith and trust ... and not so much about 'getting it right' RELAX in your faith ... HE called you ... and He will get you there! Don't let satan mess with your emotions ... YOU ARE AN OVERCOMER!!!!!! (God says you are)

woohoo!!! THANK YOU LEONARD - this is exactly the point - I'd say the risk that smokers take is similar to that of coke/pepsi addicts; (after all you CAN clean your toilet bowl with it and it really works) If you choose a handful of any products in your local grocery store and analyze the ingredients, I think you'll find it just as shameful (the amount of chemicals that are allowed to be put in FOOD products as "harmless") I think thats much worse, because its being sold under the 'guise' of being healthy -- much, much more insideous; I mean what possible nutritional value can there be in 'red dye no.2' Yet our "powers that be" (food and drug 'deciders') tell us ... yep, itsallgood.

Totally 'get you' tigger... my husband just recently saved ... as you pray fervently for a dearly loved one that you see EVERY day, day after day, after month, after year ... your heart aches for them, yes I was prepared to trade my spot for my husband ... so to answer your question .... yeh, i'm crazy too!!!

AMEN AND AMEN !!!!! WHAT A WONDERFUL WARRIOR OF A GOD WE HAVE WHO FIGHTS DEATH AND WINS!!!!! ONLY ONE THAT I KNOW OF *HAPPY DANCE*

Alright: I suppose I will throw my hat into the ring. Disclaimer: I have not studied this out, it is merely some thoughts of the top of my head that many will/may disagree with. It is not intended as anything more than something to consider, nor can I support it. As a young boy, it is without doubt that like us, Jesus had a measure of the Holy Spirit within. However, just like us, he was tempted in every way and victorious over the temptations, be those temptations of the flesh, the mind, etc.. It was not until His baptism by John, that the full measure of the Holy Spirit, the fulness of the Godhead dwelt bodily [cf Col 2:9], was poured out upon Him. Have I stepped out upon a limb here and have the saw working next to the trunk? That is possible. Based upon everything that the Scriptures testify unto with regard to the Holy Spirit, if the full measure of the Holy Spirit was always within/upon Jesus, it would be near impossible for Him to truly understand/sympathize with our weaknesses and to be tempted in every way. Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are

I wonder if this will work??

Now you guys got me curious ... i'm gonna have to play with it too ok, well, THAT was a flop lets try this way

ANY TIME !! ...and i do mean anytime ... i would be honoured to pray for you and your hubby!!

More great advice ... you guys are GREAT!!!

as i thot bibs, great advice!! a support thread is a great idea ... it is an area of the church that has been 'vacuumed' and left empty.

How comfortable and accepted is an unchurched biker with leathers and tattoos going to feel walking into a church of "Mr. Roger's" types... I think this is what you mean isn't it GymRose?

I agree. Something that I do like about the Emergent Church is that it appeals to those who would normally not feel comfortable in a traditional church, such as Punks and other sub-cultures. AMEN to both of you!!!

what a fabulous question david!!! what system do you use for studying? like what is your process. i just finished studying romans. i used a guide for this one. 2 months ago i started a subject study on joy -- i've learned so much about joy in the last 2 months!! when you go thru scripture and write out everyone of God's ideas on joy you get a very clear picture of what He gave it to us for oh, also i have found that people sometimes judge you when you are very joyful; the most wonderful thing i learned is that joy REALLY DOES give you strength, especially when you apply it to a sorrow/trial or tribulation. and then i have various other subjects that i've been studying for about 2-3 years (prayer, praise, and submission) ... what God showed me about these particular subjects is that "My people spend so much time and money at colleges and universities, but they don't seek My Word that way" i sensed that the Lord wanted me to approach my study of His Word this way, so thats what i'm doing; it would appear that i'm getting my 'doctorate' in prayer, praise, and submission because i've been attending for 3 years now and it doesn't appear to be coming to end anytime soon; i've noticed that some courses can take up to 10 years to complete i would like to hear whatever anyone else does for studying also; i'm always looking for fresh "out of the box" ideas to study God's Word ... or would that change the thread??

well, said Leonard ... I'm not a democrat either (i'm not even american ... does it count if you are an american "at heart") but if i was an american i would be a republican. as a canadian living in ontario, i find that i would definitely move toward the west to live in a much more conservative district ... say alberta. ontario is very liberal minded. the liberal views in my province feel more like "chains" around my freedoms and choices go figure eh.

...and they (the double minded) should expect nothing.

There's a lady in our church that was there ... she doesn't like to talk about it either.

That's very good to know Massorite I didn't know that, I bet there's alot of little things like that that have been changed in scripture; I know when I study I find my Greek interlinear a great help for things like that. Thanks for sharing!!

AMEN ... actually, Jesus said He didn't care, as long as the name of God was preached ... what difference does it make what the motive is ... IMO people walk too much in fear and not in God's total and ABSOLUTE power over everything He created ... they get all 'bent' ... really, aren't we living in a 'politically correct' world now ... shouldn't the churches reflect that also ... I say scrap all the traditions of the 'old guard' and lets 'redefine' church (not God or the trinity) just the traditions of man, sounds like a great idea ... I've got an idea for a "generation X" church ... only meet once a month for the WHOLE day!!! (i'd go to that church) ... of course there'd have to be a pot luck for food right? (ok lets keep 1 of the old traditions)

I don't have a problem with "a new thing" because for me it doesn't matter if it's a new or old church or what tradition the service is done in ... or if its in a movie theatre or in a restaurant (in our town we have 1 in each). As long as the pastor is preaching the Word and its done in truth. I have often wondered why do we do the service this way anyway. I probably ask this question because with my personality type I love change and to look for different ways to do things, some people call it "thinking outside the box". (which I definitely do) I believe the "tide" of the people that we are trying to reach cannot be reached with "1800 or so" traditions -- they just don't apply to the world they live in. Please don't jump on me about the Bible and God not changing ... I know all that I simply mean the MAN MADE traditions. Really, can you imagine when the church changed from 'chants' to actually singing hymns ( ) I would imagine that there where oodles of people that where up in arms about changing THAT tradition!! What I have found in scripture is that Jesus usually met the 'people' outside ... I say AMEN to THAT ... lets create new tradition and all summer have church outside!! I have more to say ... but I have to go do my afternoon tradition, which is make supper for my hubby

It is good advice Rick, and I completely understand what you are saying about putting the Lord first. I mean it makes perfect sense. For some of us though, when our "he-men" aren't saved, or are in a different 'place' spiritually, a different approach is sometimes necessary. I know in my situation I COULD NOT figure it out on my own it was the Lord who revealed this to me (so I can't take one single ounze of credit for it ) Last year (1 year before my hubby got saved) I was crying out to God (yet again) why isn't it happening, why oh why Lord when will he see and understand? God said, "you are more concerned about BEING right ... than DOING right (obedience to God); which do you want? Do you want to BE right or do you want to DO right?" .... ... that face is EXACTLY what I must have looked like to God. Then He explained it to me. Yes, I am right in what I understand about Him and His book, however, hubby is not concerned about this stuff, not one bit. So when you take away 'being right' what are you left with ... and thats when the truth in 1 Peter 3 really sunk in for me. God was MORE concerned about my hubby's walk (or lack of walk and lack of salvation) than He was about me BEING right.

Why thank you Bibs -- lots of hard work to get there!!! (and still learning)

oscarette: this is a good thing you desire, wanting your marriage to illustrate the love of Jesus for His church. But there is a second part to this ... the church was obedient to Christ as the head. My advice to you is to really research the issue that you are asking about, which is...submission; in the context of the marriage relationship, not the context of sisters and brothers. IMO the Lord requires a slightly different type of submission in this regard. The body of Christ, all of us as sisters and brothers ... this, is the body. But a husband and wife, which is also part of the body ... are also something else ... the picture of the trinity ... cleaved as one. This is why the bible gives special directives to husbands and wives ... not just lumping them in with all brothers and sisters; brothers and sisters (the body) is not a demonstration of the trinity. It is, however interdependant, but not like the trinity, which is what the picture of marriage is. I would suggest that you take your advice very carefully in this regard and really study what people tell you; make sure it shines brightly through the lense of God's Spirit, and more importantly, the Word that He has given us to use in this age and time; make sure its not twisted to suit certain views of the world ... which we are to live in, but not be like them. Above all, when seeking advice on marriage ... find out about the one giving you advice; do they have a happy marriage, how long have they been married, how committed to each other are they; are they divorced, if so why and how many times ... these are all valid questions when someone is trying to advise you on YOUR marriage. Don't read books on submission first ... read them after you've a better handle on what God's Word says. I have found 'word' studies to be especially helpful if you are interested. (my hubby's suggestion is to find a woman's study group for you and to give your hubby the time and space he needs to come to these decisions on his own with God; otherwise he could dig his heels in and it will have an adverse effect on the outcome that you would like)

Prayer is not a spiritual gift. it is somethign we do in order to know God better I will probably be alone in this statement by that's ok ... I disagree with you EricH; altho it is a common belief (could be right could be wrong its just not mine) ... but if prayer is 'talking' to God ... and the way you get to know someone better is by listening to them ... not by telling them what you want/or need or think (which is what most of us do when we 'pray') or how awesome they are (and not that this is a bad thing) but ... how can you get to know God better if you are not listening to Him, but only talking TO/AT Him? I believe prayer is to bring US to His purposes and will; prayer is about letting God change OUR hearts to be in-line with His; its about affirming us and our participation WITH God's purposes here on earth. In order to pray effectively, you need to know what He wants of you in any particular regard; its always about HIM, not us. Its always about His ways, His purposes. Not what we think it should be or want it to be. God gave the earth to us; its our dominion to be co-regents WITH Him. This is what Eric said in a nutshell. By praying from the heart, we are confirming within ourselves what God has already known, humbling ourselves to the point where God can work in our lives. Of course, this only pertains to personal prayer. When we intercede for others, we are lifting them up, in His love, and seeking His intervention in their lives. How we get to know God better is to realize that we need Him more through studying, worship, fasting and prayer. These are tools that we should exercise often. I don't agree that thats what Eric said ... but I'm not going to debate it ... I must have intrepreted his statement different than you did ... and thats ok ... I think.

This is true. Love doesn't ever "die" or "fall" because its not a thing (noun) its a verb a (choice) or a (commitment); people can "choose" to not show love anymore or to not be committed anymore ... its active its something we do ... or don't do. To say the word "fall" it implies that we don't have any choice; that its more of 'happenstance'... or no control of the situation; when infact we have complete control over the situation ... but just don't want to be held accountable for our actions/choices. Making a covenant is a promise...its not about how I 'feel' its about what I 'do'.