JustinM Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I am not going to argue this any further because if you are for torturing people, then your wrong, period. Furthermore, I hope it feels good arguing in favor of a tactic used during the Inquisition and by the Khmer Rouge. Ok, how high is your pedestal? Forrestkc until your liberal positions change in favor of encouraging people to follow God's Commands, your moral high ground is laughable at best. You embrace an ideology (socialism, marxism, darwinism) that is responsible for the physical and spiritual deaths of hundreds of millions of people. More of the confusing selective moral outrage I was referring to in my earlier posts. What I don't understand forrestkc is how you believe that Christianity is unimportant and should be discussed in private. If you truly believe in Christianity, you know that people that reject Christ's gift of salvation are headed for hell. Why, in the name of tolerance, would you lead them down the path to hell? Maybe you have never heard of the term hard love. God's version of hard love is much more painful and severe than what Christians use on the human race. Our hard love is showing people the truth and error of their ways, then sending them along the path of righteousness. We are all on that path, by the way, so to tell someone there's a better way that has a better ending, is the most loving thing to do. We don't walk on a higher path than the ones we are encouraging to take, we walk along beside them. Your idea of love, is walking a parallel path with them, but one day those paths will diverge and it will be too late to help those people find their way. Your self righteous attacks on those that disagree with you are quite troubling, it makes one wonder if you are on the right path, or just walking on one parallel to ours. One day, you will be at a crossroads and you will have to decide if your liberal ideology fits in with God's mandates. I think there will be a conflict then, I have a feeling you may divorce yourself from the church. I hope not, but you need to come to terms with your faith and put less faith in man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2008 I am not going to argue this any further because if you are for torturing people, then your wrong, period. Furthermore, I hope it feels good arguing in favor of a tactic used during the Inquisition and by the Khmer Rouge. Ok, how high is your pedestal? Forrestkc until your liberal positions change in favor of encouraging people to follow God's Commands, your moral high ground is laughable at best. More of the confusing selective moral outrage I was referring to in my earlier posts. If your going to chastise others for what you see as selective morality, then you cant be selectively moral yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I already said that as torture is defined, waterboarding doesn't fit into that category. Also if you define anguish or agony, then you would understand why I don't think that mental anguish is experienced during waterboarding. Furthermore forrestkc, I also believe that the prisoners at GITMO are being treated better than what is required by the Geneva Conventions for POW's and prisoners that fall into the unlawful combatant category, which are afforded nothing. So, tell me where I am in error with my "selective" morality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 10, 2008 For the life of me I don't understand why so many don't understand this; that when we sink to their level we become no better than them. My grandpa used to say "when you lie down with pigs, you're going to smell like one." To paraphrase that; you're not going to maintain the moral highground by getting down to the enemy's level. We don't have to become inhuman mutants in order to dispatch them. What I don't understand is why you believe waterboarding is getting down to their level? Their level is kidnapping reporters and using them as hostages. Their level is forced conversion. Their level is chopping heads off. I don't understand how you believe harsh interrogation and the list above are equal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yeah, the nonstop bombardments of selective moral outrage is quite confusing at times. You believe waterboarding is torture, I don't. Leave it at that. I believe terrorists are unlawful combatants and should be charged with war crimes, you don't. Leave it at that. And I think we better end this discussion at that. True, false or otherwise, things are getting way too personal around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I would really like to make a further reply to this thread but one of the Watchman thought a previous post I made was not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2008 Sodium Pentathol yields better results and is harmless. Question - how do you know this? Have read a research paper on the issue, or an intelligence report comparing interrogation methods? Or what are you basing this information on? I personally have never been exposed to interrogation methods, so truthfully I don't know what works and what doesn't, nor do I know of all the methods that have been utilized. So, how is it that you know Sodium Pentathol yields better results? I don't want my government to imitate the Taliban! What does the Taliban do with their prisoners? Nearly any method produces more reliable results than torture. Do I KNOW this for sure? No, I only know what I read. And, as for the Taliban, they do horrific things to people.....my point is that I don't want our country to even start in that direction. Those mutants crawled right out of the pit and I don't consider them human. My concern is not for the terrorists.....but for the morality of own country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted March 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2008 For the life of me I don't understand why so many don't understand this; that when we sink to their level we become no better than them. My grandpa used to say "when you lie down with pigs, you're going to smell like one." To paraphrase that; you're not going to maintain the moral highground by getting down to the enemy's level. We don't have to become inhuman mutants in order to dispatch them. What I don't understand is why you believe waterboarding is getting down to their level? Their level is kidnapping reporters and using them as hostages. Their level is forced conversion. Their level is chopping heads off. I don't understand how you believe harsh interrogation and the list above are equal? They aren't equal....as I said before, I don't want our government to go in that direction. We are supposed to be civilized people Because the enemy does horrible things to people does that justify the U.S. using illegal means to elicit information? No, it does not. I don't understand how anyone could think God is going to be okay with this 'harsh interrogation thing.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 i guess nobody can come up with a logical argument to the comments i've posted. God called for people to do far worse than waterboarding to enemies in wartime. and even NOT in wartime. so instead of complaining about how ungodly this is, why not be happy that we're not treating them in a biblical manner? oh, and the US does NOT, i repeat NOT use illegal means to elicit information. waterboarding is NOT illegal. i really hate when people keep inferring that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted March 11, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted March 11, 2008 This is a quote from the movie "A Few Good Men". Remember that Jessup was arrested for his role in the accidental death of a marine. While his lack of remose is disturbing, Colonel Jessup had a point. Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. Seems a little ungrateful to question the methods used by those who put themselves in harms way, for our sakes. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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