Death Toll

[mikeinsarasota]

Firstly, the war was not/is not illegal.

Sure it was. We invaded another country illegally.

Secondly, to know that the daily life of the average Iraqi is worse now than when Saddam was in power, you would have to have lived there then and now, or at least you would have to have concrete proof of that (I would think that living in constant fear of Saddam's death squads would be a little more worrisome than a few power outages and sewage problems).

You paint a rosy picture. "a few power outages and sewage problems" it's much worse than that. and how about living in constant fear of random suicide bombers. People there don't know if they can go to the market without being blown up. At least with Saddam his killings were premeditated and deliberate. Not random. You knew if you had something to fear. Now everyone must be afraid. I'd say that's worse.

Finally, you cannot compare a subjective experience such as salvation; and faith being the substantiation of that experience, with a completely objective situation.

Sure I can. I just did

As believers we know that Christ lives within us because we have experienced Him. And we know the power of His resurrection because we have experienced it. We therefore are qualified to testify of such experiences. As one who merely observes from the outside the situation in another part of the country, you are not qualified to factually comment on the situation of the people of Iraq. Given the choice between one who has been there - seen the situation with his own eyes and one who merely takes in the filtered (MUCH FILTERED) and bias new reports here in the States, I'll take report from the one who has been there.

I can make a lot of factual statements about China though I've never been there. Your logic is fatally flawed. You don't know where I get my information from. Also you have to consider the capacity in which this person was there, and the bias that comes with that capacity.

[Ovedya]

Sure it was. We invaded another country illegally.

Cite the violation of National or International law which we broke, then.

You paint a rosy picture. "a few power outages and sewage problems" it's much worse than that. and how about living in constant fear of random suicide bombers. People there don't know if they can go to the market without being blown up. At least with Saddam his killings were premeditated and deliberate. Not random. You knew if you had something to fear. Now everyone must be afraid. I'd say that's worse.

You are actually arguing that the fear of one kind of killing trumps another? Hey, at least when Saddam killed people you knew who was doing the killing. At least when his death squads showed up at your door or kidnapped you right off the streets in broad daylight, you knew it was Saddam. Yeah....I'm sure the people of Iraq were much more comforted then than they are now (Oh, and suicide bombing occurred long before we ever got there).

Sure I can. I just did

Yeah, you did write the words. Yet they weren't an even comparison, so your point fell flat.

I can make a lot of factual statements about China though I've never been there.

No, you can only cite factual statements about China, like what their GPD was last year and what happened on thus-and-such date. You cannot make factual statements that would require you to have actually lived there and seen the conditions before and after an event.

Also you have to consider the capacity in which this person was there, and the bias that comes with that capacity.

And you have to consider the capacity of the person having reported to you the conditions through the bias news media, and which stories you decide to believe based upon your personal alignment with that person's or news source's bias. Obviously you choose to believe the negative reports from Iraq as opposed to the positive reports, which come too few and far between in American media.

[Ovedya]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle1530762.ece

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001497.html

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/

[Bubba4J]

[JustinM]

Firstly, the war was not/is not illegal.

Sure it was. We invaded another country illegally.

Secondly, to know that the daily life of the average Iraqi is worse now than when Saddam was in power, you would have to have lived there then and now, or at least you would have to have concrete proof of that (I would think that living in constant fear of Saddam's death squads would be a little more worrisome than a few power outages and sewage problems).

You paint a rosy picture. "a few power outages and sewage problems" it's much worse than that. and how about living in constant fear of random suicide bombers. People there don't know if they can go to the market without being blown up. At least with Saddam his killings were premeditated and deliberate. Not random. You knew if you had something to fear. Now everyone must be afraid. I'd say that's worse.

Finally, you cannot compare a subjective experience such as salvation; and faith being the substantiation of that experience, with a completely objective situation.

Sure I can. I just did

As believers we know that Christ lives within us because we have experienced Him. And we know the power of His resurrection because we have experienced it. We therefore are qualified to testify of such experiences. As one who merely observes from the outside the situation in another part of the country, you are not qualified to factually comment on the situation of the people of Iraq. Given the choice between one who has been there - seen the situation with his own eyes and one who merely takes in the filtered (MUCH FILTERED) and bias new reports here in the States, I'll take report from the one who has been there.

I can make a lot of factual statements about China though I've never been there. Your logic is fatally flawed. You don't know where I get my information from. Also you have to consider the capacity in which this person was there, and the bias that comes with that capacity.

What made our invasion illegal? 17 UN Resolutions against Iraq, or do you believe there should have been 18 or 19 or 99?

quote mikeinsarasota: "At least with Saddam his killings were premeditated and deliberate."

Do you remember the story of the Salem Witch trials? Innocent men, women and children were accused of witchcraft by people that had a grudge against them. A lot of people that disappeared under Saddam Hussein's regime were brought under other unsubstantiated and trumped up charges. Except, this was heresy of his regime.

quote mikeinsarasota: "Sure I can. I just did"

That sounds like something a child would say, or someone that is very immature. I can say red is blue, if I want, it doesn't make red, blue.

quote mikeinsarasota: "I can make a lot of factual statements about China though I've never been there. Your logic is fatally flawed. You don't know where I get my information from.

Yes, there are a lot of facts that anyone can dig up on China and any other country in the world, but you haven't provided any facts, but you have provided a lot of subjective opinions.

I haven't given an opinion on Iraq in this thread. As for your "You don't know where I get my information from." comment, that's right we don't know where you got it from, because you won't provide source material to strengthen your opinions. As far as we know, you could have gotten your so-called facts from ihatepresidentbush.com or usstinks.com, or iamamericaandsocanyou.com

So, we have a right to challenge your "facts," You are new here, rhetoric and propaganda, doesn't fly for long and there will always be people that will challenge you.

Why don't you start reading the blogs that matter, how about blogs from the POV of the men and women who are serving in Iraq? Foxnews.com has a great section that has blogs from servicemembers, they are reporting substantial progress.

[mikeinsarasota]

Foxnews.com has a great section that has blogs from servicemembers, they are reporting substantial progress.

Fair and balanced, right?

[Ovedya]

Foxnews.com has a great section that has blogs from servicemembers, they are reporting substantial progress.

Fair and balanced, right?

What other news site features blogs from service members, which report on their experiences in Iraq. The Communist News Network, I suppose?

[JustinM]

Foxnews.com has a great section that has blogs from servicemembers, they are reporting substantial progress.

Fair and balanced, right?

Do you have to be so disrespectful to those that disagree with you? But, in response, I can guarantee it is no less fair and balanced than your posts. If you were even remotely interested in learning something useful, you would have seen that some of those blogs come from independent journalists (freelance) that request donations to fund their reporting. But, I'm sure you missed those.

[mikeinsarasota]

From the blog of a soldier,

"I thought that it was pretty comical that I shot at a guy a long ways out but missed and later after taking his house and using it as a patrol base he offered me Chai and rice."

I don't see what's so funny about indiscriminately shooting at people.

[Ovedya]

From the blog of a soldier,

"I thought that it was pretty comical that I shot at a guy a long ways out but missed and later after taking his house and using it as a patrol base he offered me Chai and rice."

I don't see what's so funny about indiscriminately shooting at people.

On the contrary, it appears to me like the guy "discriminate" in his shooting. Do you think we train our soldiers to just go out and shoot at anything that moves, including women and children?

Oh yeah......You wouldn't be trying to disparage a man - a soldier - who gave his life for our country, would you? That quote was from SPC. Jerry Ryan King's journal: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/us/4000k...?pagewanted=all