traveller Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2008 Blindseeker - I'm not a preterist - but I sort of understand the fundamentals. That's what this is, I believe? See - I know that the apostles expected and wanted a king - one to deliver them from the present regime. Jesus was not what they expected. I get that part. However, even knowing that I find it hard to believe that Jesus was speaking to the near future. Perhaps He was - but I've not been convinced of it. I keep goin back to a big old void. See - if those things were ALL He was referring to, then that would mean that He was being silent about all these past 2000 years. I have to read more brother - but for now - I'm not convinced. The state of mind of the apostles didn't dictate the answers of the Messiah. He spoke many riddles, many parables. Anyway - it's still a very interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have to say it was worth the the read, and something I will be revisiting again, see I am just starting to get the meat. I have been born again for a number of years but it's only been this last year that I would say I have moved from the milk to the meat. I also happens that the book of Matthew is my favorite so any thing new I learn from it is so exciting. I just wanted to say Thanks for posting this and I will be rereading it again and most likely again as I tend to chew my meat slowly. God bless. Thank you Kitty for your post, it was a needed encouragement. Please feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to give you an answer. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Well, William, I haven't finished reading all of the post, but what I have read so far, has not been a waste of time, not for me at any rate. however I shall continue reading the full entire post with both an open bible and mind. eric, with a little 'e' Thanks to you eric. The same liberty is extended to you, any questions, contrary opinions or oversights on my part are more than welcome. I am here to learn and to share what I learned . . . and to enjoy the sharing of hungry hearts and mind for the truth. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted May 22, 2008 William, for those that want a paraphrased post, I plan on doing just that, but the last part of Matthew 24 still confuses me. It is clear at the beginning which temple is indicated, and that He is telling the disciples what is going to happen with the destruction of the temple. However, from v. 27 onward, it sounds like Jesus is speaking of His second coming, but unless He suddenly jumped forward a couple thousand years, that can't be it especially since He said it would be immediately after the tribulation He described (which can be proven in scriptures and historically the things He described already happened). Please explain this. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Blindseeker - I'm not a preterist - but I sort of understand the fundamentals. That's what this is, I believe? See - I know that the apostles expected and wanted a king - one to deliver them from the present regime. Jesus was not what they expected. I get that part. However, even knowing that I find it hard to believe that Jesus was speaking to the near future. Perhaps He was - but I've not been convinced of it. I keep goin back to a big old void. See - if those things were ALL He was referring to, then that would mean that He was being silent about all these past 2000 years. I have to read more brother - but for now - I'm not convinced. The state of mind of the apostles didn't dictate the answers of the Messiah. He spoke many riddles, many parables. Anyway - it's still a very interesting read. Sister Traveller, Well, then we have more in common than our love of Jesus and His truth, for I am not a preterist either. I believe Jesus did answer the direct questions of the apostles in chapter 24 . . . but in chapter 25 where He begins the parable of the ten virgins where the five wise ones secured the necessary oil for the duration of tarrying of the bridegrooms coming. I am inclined to believe Jesus was turning from addressing the near future to the time that would follow afterwards and till the end. That it would be necessary for the believers to use their time, resources, and talents (as follows in the follow parable) to be ready for His coming, as he says in verse 30, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 William, for those that want a paraphrased post, I plan on doing just that, but the last part of Matthew 24 still confuses me. It is clear at the beginning which temple is indicated, and that He is telling the disciples what is going to happen with the destruction of the temple. However, from v. 27 onward, it sounds like Jesus is speaking of His second coming, but unless He suddenly jumped forward a couple thousand years, that can't be it especially since He said it would be immediately after the tribulation He described (which can be proven in scriptures and historically the things He described already happened). Please explain this. Thank you. I addressed this with the submittal of Josephus account in the OP. I will repost it and comment thereafter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 I thought it would be interesting to submit also Josephus mentioning of Jesus in his historical accounting . . . Josephus Antiquities of the Jews Book XVIII, Chap. 3 - para 3; SEDITION OF THE JEWS AGAINST PONTIUS PILATE. CONCERNING CHRIST, AND WHAT BEFELL PAULINA AND THE JEWS AT ROME, 3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xan Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/23/1970 Share Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) Thank you, William. This is an interesting Bible study, and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I read through your explanation, and it makes sense. I'm going to look into it more in depth as I have time. Edited May 22, 2008 by hellbunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 So, there are many things that Jesus said directly to, and about Israel which will certainly have some principle application to some events in the last days. But that is because of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 22, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2008 So, there are many things that Jesus said directly to, and about Israel which will certainly have some principle application to some events in the last days. But that is because of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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