Left Behind - will there be a "Rapture"?

[Floatingaxe]

The pre-trib concept teaches that the rapture happens before the antichrist appears on the world scene. But verse 3 is very clear in saying that the rapture will not happen until after the antichrist is revealed and the falling away has taken place. How can these verses be ignored?

I am pre-Tribulational, and I believe the Antichrist will be on the scene and also so will many of the Tribulation events be in full sway. There is not clear division of times. Tribulation will build all the while the Lord is preparing to remove the Church. That is why we are told to observe the times, and watch!!

People will not recognize the Antichrist until he reveals himself, but he will be on the scene---he could be even now.

[OneLight]

According to what I have read, the Anti-Christ will not appear until the middle of the 7 years, or the 70th week. There will first be a falling away, then"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel

[improved]

I'm going to put my beliefs in a very blunt way that may make me automatically unpopular, but I'm doing it out of love.

Rapture theology has weakened the church ridiculously. It has put so many people on the anxious bench to get saved, with the sole intention of escaping any work or responsibility. The mindset seems to be "If I get saved, the rapture will come soon enough that I'll just have to dance around the darkness so that it doesn't pull me back into sin before the Second Coming." Whatever happened to subduing the Earth? Whatever happened to the empowerment of Grace to overcome? People are too focused on getting themselves out of here at any moment to acually overcome anymore. We're too concerned with how quickly we can leave all the sinners behind to suffer God's wrath than to actually show them Love and bring them to maturity.

Personally, I don't see the rapture in any scripture, or anywhere in History before the demonized girl feverishly spouted off some new revelation to add on to the original gospel (Gal 1:6-10). But really, my opinion matters to no one. I figure that whether or not it is a true future event or some fantasy, it should be the last thing we preach after all other aspects of the Bible have been preached. It has become a scare tactic, an anxiety attack, and really (in my childhood experiences) a paranoia for people who expect someone to come home earlier than they did. In all honesty, our devotion to God, our willingness to serve, our drive to advance God's Kingdom should not be effected by the Rapture that is lurking arround the corner. How many people have died in the last 100 years, certain that they wouldn't have to?

I guess in summary of all that I have to say, don't make that component of eschatology the cornerstone of your theology. Yeshua is coming back, yes. We will be resurrected, leaving us as champions over death, yes. God is not a God of retreat, but a conquering King! Pastors, bring your people to maturity. Congregations, be mature and help your pastors by being leaders among the people and exaples of maturity. (Hebrews 5:11- 6:3, Eph 4:11-16) God is God and I love Him, whether or not my Eschatology is sorted out perfectly; it does not effect my worship and devotion to Him. I hope this is the same for everyone.

[Floatingaxe]

I'm going to put my beliefs in a very blunt way that may make me automatically unpopular, but I'm doing it out of love.

Rapture theology has weakened the church ridiculously. It has put so many people on the anxious bench to get saved, with the sole intention of escaping any work or responsibility. The mindset seems to be "If I get saved, the rapture will come soon enough that I'll just have to dance around the darkness so that it doesn't pull me back into sin before the Second Coming." Whatever happened to subduing the Earth? Whatever happened to the empowerment of Grace to overcome? People are too focused on getting themselves out of here at any moment to acually overcome anymore. We're too concerned with how quickly we can leave all the sinners behind to suffer God's wrath than to actually show them Love and bring them to maturity.

Personally, I don't see the rapture in any scripture, or anywhere in History before the demonized girl feverishly spouted off some new revelation to add on to the original gospel (Gal 1:6-10). But really, my opinion matters to no one. I figure that whether or not it is a true future event or some fantasy, it should be the last thing we preach after all other aspects of the Bible have been preached. It has become a scare tactic, an anxiety attack, and really (in my childhood experiences) a paranoia for people who expect someone to come home earlier than they did. In all honesty, our devotion to God, our willingness to serve, our drive to advance God's Kingdom should not be effected by the Rapture that is lurking arround the corner. How many people have died in the last 100 years, certain that they wouldn't have to?

I guess in summary of all that I have to say, don't make that component of eschatology the cornerstone of your theology. Yeshua is coming back, yes. We will be resurrected, leaving us as champions over death, yes. God is not a God of retreat, but a conquering King! Pastors, bring your people to maturity. Congregations, be mature and help your pastors by being leaders among the people and exaples of maturity. (Hebrews 5:11- 6:3, Eph 4:11-16) God is God and I love Him, whether or not my Eschatology is sorted out perfectly; it does not effect my worship and devotion to Him. I hope this is the same for everyone.

People who believe in the pre-Tribulational rapture don't think in the way you portray. Broad generalizations and harsh criticism of these people is not of God. It is not any "scare tactic", for the rejection of it is also pretty scary to those who sit on the fence spiritually, also!

(I have no idea what you are referring to in Galatians 1 regarding some demonized girl!)

Anyone who would be so fixated on eschatology isn't mature in Christ. You are correct in that we need to focus on the full body of scripture and doctrine and live doing the Word, rather than hearing it, and serving God to bring in a harvest.

The denigration that I witness regarding whichever stance one has in this area is a complete and sinful waste.

[Arthur Durnan]

No rapture of the Church in accordance with 1 Thessalonians 4;!3-18 means essentially that the existing Church will tend to convert the world preparing it for the return of its rightful King. I find that philosophy quite difficult to stomach. The world we live in is getting worse - much worse -not better. The King will want to hesitate at length - much length indeed - if He's hoping the Church will do His job for Him, ie, preparing the world for His glorious return. It's still true that the "whole world lies in the wicked one." And the professing Christian Church has as much power to overturn Satan & his serried hosts as does, well, for example in the natural realm, Sumatra to resist its Tsunami! "Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus!"

[exrockstar]

According to what I have read, the Anti-Christ will not appear until the middle of the 7 years, or the 70th week. There will first be a falling away, then"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel

[OneLight]

I'm going to put my beliefs in a very blunt way that may make me automatically unpopular, but I'm doing it out of love.

Rapture theology has weakened the church ridiculously. It has put so many people on the anxious bench to get saved, with the sole intention of escaping any work or responsibility. The mindset seems to be "If I get saved, the rapture will come soon enough that I'll just have to dance around the darkness so that it doesn't pull me back into sin before the Second Coming." Whatever happened to subduing the Earth? Whatever happened to the empowerment of Grace to overcome? People are too focused on getting themselves out of here at any moment to acually overcome anymore. We're too concerned with how quickly we can leave all the sinners behind to suffer God's wrath than to actually show them Love and bring them to maturity.

The weakness of the church is due to the pride of man, not Theology. I'm right and you are wrong mentality. For those who seek salvation on the grounds you mention seek the love of Christ, even if they address the throne out of fear and selfishness, which can be derived from many places in scripture. Did you not come to Christ out of your desire not to die in your sins, which is a form of selfishness?

The statement I underlined leads me to believe that you are of the school that the church has to prepare the world for Christ's return. Am I correct?

Personally, I don't see the rapture in any scripture, or anywhere in History before the demonized girl feverishly spouted off some new revelation to add on to the original gospel (Gal 1:6-10). But really, my opinion matters to no one. I figure that whether or not it is a true future event or some fantasy, it should be the last thing we preach after all other aspects of the Bible have been preached. It has become a scare tactic, an anxiety attack, and really (in my childhood experiences) a paranoia for people who expect someone to come home earlier than they did. In all honesty, our devotion to God, our willingness to serve, our drive to advance God's Kingdom should not be effected by the Rapture that is lurking arround the corner. How many people have died in the last 100 years, certain that they wouldn't have to?

It would be nice if you would bring scripture about this teaching the demon possessed worn taught. As for the rapture, being caught up is what we today call the rapture and it is in scripture, no matter where it is placed; therefore, it is not a fantasy, but truth. People come to Christ for many reasons. The fact that they turn to Him is what is important. To say that someone is not turning to Him for the right reasons is sitting in judgment where one can not sit. If you ask anyone who is saved, they all have come to Him out of some form of fear.

I guess in summary of all that I have to say, don't make that component of eschatology the cornerstone of your theology. Yeshua is coming back, yes. We will be resurrected, leaving us as champions over death, yes. God is not a God of retreat, but a conquering King! Pastors, bring your people to maturity. Congregations, be mature and help your pastors by being leaders among the people and exaples of maturity. (Hebrews 5:11- 6:3, Eph 4:11-16) God is God and I love Him, whether or not my Eschatology is sorted out perfectly; it does not effect my worship and devotion to Him. I hope this is the same for everyone.

To be honest, I know of no one who places their theology of the rapture before Christ and His will in their life. Maturity is a personal choice. One can sit under the most profound preacher or teacher and ignore what they are saying. Maturity is a choice each of us has to attend to in our personal walk with Christ. It is not the responsibility of the pastors or teachers to being anyone anywhere. It is their responsibility to bring the truth to everyone. What people do with the truth is not their responsibility.

[OneLight]

According to what I have read, the Anti-Christ will not appear until the middle of the 7 years, or the 70th week. There will first be a falling away, then"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm going to put my beliefs in a very blunt way that may make me automatically unpopular, but I'm doing it out of love.

This is not out of love, but out of ignorance and unfounded, unfair and overly broad generalizations.

Rapture theology has weakened the church ridiculously. It has put so many people on the anxious bench to get saved, with the sole intention of escaping any work or responsibility. The mindset seems to be "If I get saved, the rapture will come soon enough that I'll just have to dance around the darkness so that it doesn't pull me back into sin before the Second Coming." Whatever happened to subduing the Earth? Whatever happened to the empowerment of Grace to overcome? People are too focused on getting themselves out of here at any moment to acually overcome anymore. We're too concerned with how quickly we can leave all the sinners behind to suffer God's wrath than to actually show them Love and bring them to maturity.

The people promoting the rapture the most evangelistic people I know. They are not sitting around in some kind of lame escapism, but see the rapture as \an indicator of the need to be working in the fields reaching the lost.

The rapture, far from promoting laziness, produces people who see reaching the lost as a immediate imperative. I have never met a person who believed in the rapture who behaves as you claim.

It is just the usual demonization and false witness that emanates from the anti-rapture crowd.

[exrockstar]

This is a brief look into what I believe. Hope this clears up any confusion you may have about where I stand ...

yes im familiar with the scriptures that you presented.

However, I want to keep it simple, short and sweet so we can stay focused on a point and not many.

I am a little confused so I want you to help me understand what you believe. I am open to what your saying but

I need clarification. ok? thank you.

just want to ask two questions. Hopefully you can give short sweet answers.

1. When Christ returns (THE INFAMOUS SECOND COMING) will the entire world know?

2. When you quoted 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come ...." do you interpret "that day" as the INFAMOUS SECOND COMING THAT THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL SEE? If you have a different interpretation of "that day" then maybe you can fill me in?

two simple questions. thank you