Is there a Hell?

[ParanoidAndroid]

double edit for RebekahDavid (sorry for the lateness of night) - you are aware that this is speaking metaphoricall, don't you? Matthew 25 is speaking of "sheep" and "goats", and how Jesus relates with them.

However, I do agree that it is one of only two verses that I am aware of that support the view that the opposite of heaven is punishment. If you had quoted any other passage, this wouldn't have even been an issue. And as I have said before, I do not like making doctrines based solely on one verse, especially when all other supporting documentation points to a differnet answer. Sorry for the edit, hope it hasn't created too much differences.

[RebekahDavid]

I find it is very sad that people can not trust the Word of the God-to deny what Jesus said because it is more comfortable emotionally.

Matthew7:13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

But the Bible does warn about the eartickling delusions:

2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

love your sister in Christ

[RebekahDavid]

Luke 16:19"Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20"And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom;

and the rich man also died and was buried.

23"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

24"And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

26'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

27"And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--

28for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29"But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'

30"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'

31"But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

[Guest man]

I am finding that more and more Christians do not believe in a literal hell - with fire and brimestone

What do you think?

I think those people are in denial and whoever is teaching them this stuff is going to end up in that place he/she doesn't believe in.

Here's what the Lord has to say about hell.

Mark 9

43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

"The fire is not quenched".

That sounds like forever to me.

I don't understand how people can just brush past verses like these as if they didn't exist.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Luke 16:19"Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20"And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom;

and the rich man also died and was buried.

23"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

24"And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

26'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

27"And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--

28for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29"But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'

30"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'

31"But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Being that it is *checks time* 7:10am here and I haven't had sleep, I'll suffice it to say that this is a parable. As a Christian, I'm sure you are aware of the purpose of parables, and that is to pass on one single theological concept. I'll provide more detail tomorrow, but suffice it to point out that the answeris found in the last paragraphs, when Jesus said (paraphrasing, becauseit's too late in the night to check): "even if someone rises from the dead they wll not be believed. This has indeed repeatedly been shown through history, taht desp[ite Jesus' conqest over death, people still don't believe him.

I'll answer more coherently tomorrow. Good night, all

[RebekahDavid]

rest well PA.

i do not agree with this statement you made

"I'm sure you are aware of the purpose of parables, and that is to pass on one single theological concept."

even a quick reading of the parables in the Bible show more than one lesson to be learned from them. and many in fact have several.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[Metadyjital]

I find it is very sad that people can not trust the Word of the God-to deny what Jesus said because it is more comfortable emotionally.

Matthew7:13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

But the Bible does warn about the eartickling delusions:

2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

love your sister in Christ

Can I tell you what is sad? That Christians cannot enter into honest dialog on a subject without someone taking the low raod of calling them "weak" or "compromisers" or "deniers of the Word" or "delusional" yada yada yada

[Xan]

I find it is very sad that people can not trust the Word of the God-to deny what Jesus said because it is more comfortable emotionally.

Matthew7:13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

But the Bible does warn about the eartickling delusions:

2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

love your sister in Christ

Can I tell you what is sad? That Christians cannot enter into honest dialog on a subject without someone taking the low raod of calling them "weak" or "compromisers" or "deniers of the Word" or "delusional" yada yada yada

Thank you, Meta. I quite agree with you. I, for one, never compromise my stance based on emotions, yet my beliefs on hell make me feel very uncomfortable because it is not the popular notion amongst Christians.

[RebekahDavid]

just to clarify things for all people reading or posting on this thread i did not call anyone one delusional etc but was responding to the orignal posted question.

when i am addressing someone individually i will include their post or name.

thanks.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[OneLight]

Well ... well ... well ... quick tempers on a hot subject (pun intended). No matter what you want to call it or not, it will be eternal separation from God. Use your favorite description, but I'll stick to what God uses, thankyou.

OneLight