Metadyjital Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/26/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2008 I am finding that more and more Christians do not believe in a literal hell - with fire and brimestone What do you think? They're nutsCould beThis is what the bible really says... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2008 The bible mentions hell in numerous verses. As to the reasons people are rejecting this doctrine, that would probably depend on the individual who is doing the rejecting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hell is real. One study shows that 90% of the world population say there is a heaven, while only 50% believe in hell. But what does the Bible say? Jesus said it was real (that's good enough for me) "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 25:41-46 "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:42-48 (nore: the word "Hell" here is "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire" which is the place of the future punishment This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.) Other places that tells us that it is real are Matthew 3:12, Daniel 12:2, Luke 16:23-24, 2 Thesselonians 1:9, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20:10 There are cults that teach that Hell is symbolic, or that it is just a stopping off place until you overcome your sin and are good enough to make it to Heaven. The New Age and Emerging church teachings include the "feel good" lie that God wouldn't punish someone by sending them to Hell forever. Well, they can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. We can choose now to accept Jesus - the only way to eternal life - or we can choose Hell. It is here and now in this life that we must accept Jesus. <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deafcanada Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 201 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1970 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hell is real. One study shows that 90% of the world population say there is a heaven, while only 50% believe in hell. But what does the Bible say? Jesus said it was real (that's good enough for me) "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 25:41-46 "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:42-48 (nore: the word "Hell" here is "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire" which is the place of the future punishment This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.) Other places that tells us that it is real are Matthew 3:12, Daniel 12:2, Luke 16:23-24, 2 Thesselonians 1:9, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20:10 There are cults that teach that Hell is symbolic, or that it is just a stopping off place until you overcome your sin and are good enough to make it to Heaven. The New Age and Emerging church teachings include the "feel good" lie that God wouldn't punish someone by sending them to Hell forever. Well, they can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. We can choose now to accept Jesus - the only way to eternal life - or we can choose Hell. It is here and now in this life that we must accept Jesus. <>< ><> Nathele Yeah, more more christians start to not believe this and also want to ignore the truth from The Bible. it is really sad becasue Jesus already warned about the Hell however people dont want to hear the truth at all and I know Satan is trying to convince them about Hell if there is actually hell or not like want to fool the people about this. but they cant get away from this. one day they will realize and been tricked and decieved when they end up die the minute after they die it will be too late. It is really sad that people are avoiding the truth. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted July 8, 2008 If there is no hell, then just what is it that we are Saved from? t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metadyjital Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/26/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well I am not saying that there is no hell... But there are great many benefits of salvation outside of the eternal aspects - such as fellowship with God, provision of God, a sound mind and healing to name a few. There are many more as well - not to mention the renewing of our thinking from the destruction of the carnal mind - which cannot even conceive the things of God. My personal reflection is hell was created for Satan and his angels. Unfortunately people or humanity decided to essentially follow Satan as well. Not for me, because I have placed my faith in Jesus Christ, but for others I truly sorrow at the thought of a literal hell. That does not mean I dont believe, because I do, just simply sad at suffering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2008 If there is no hell, then just what is it that we are Saved from? t. That is the best answer I have ever heard to this question (which comes up over and over again.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Before giving any answer, my first question would be - "define Hell"? I do believe there is an alternative to salvation (a fate awaiting those who do not believe), but I think it is biblically incorrect to call this place "hell", and the only reason I do so is because it has become the social norm. So I guess we could culturally call this place "hell". But what is it? Unless someone can give a definitive answer of "what is Hell", how can anyone give a definitive answer of "yes" or "no"???? If you know my meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 8, 2008 quote ParanoidAndroid Before giving any answer, my first question would be - "define Hell"? Hell is real. One study shows that 90% of the world population say there is a heaven, while only 50% believe in hell. But what does the Bible say? Jesus said it was real (that's good enough for me) "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel/ For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 25:41-46 "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:42-48 (nore: the word "Hell" here is "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire" which is the place of the future punishment This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.) Other places that tells us that it is real are Matthew 3:12, Daniel 12:2, Luke 16:23-24, 2 Thesselonians 1:9, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20:10 There are cults that teach that Hell is symbolic, or that it is just a stopping off place until you overcome your sin and are good enough to make it to Heaven. The New Age and Emerging church teachings include the "feel good" lie that God wouldn't punish someone by sending them to Hell forever. Well, they can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. We can choose now to accept Jesus - the only way to eternal life - or we can choose Hell. It is here and now in this life that we must accept Jesus. <>< ><> Nathele Nathele's post showed you how Jesus defines it in God's Word "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted July 8, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted July 8, 2008 As a matter of course, I do believe there is an oppsite to eternal life, but this opposite is eternal death. The "gift" of eternal life is repeatedly said to be a gift, so it is my view that eternal life is something that is granted to us as a reward for Faith in Jesus. It is not something we all have and therefore exists a place for those who do not believe. The concept of "hell" as it has come to be popularly known is derived from what we know of today as "Dante's Inferno" - a fictional and comedic work that was written to look at the levels of hell. There is "heaven" and there is the opposite of heaven (it is not given a name that I am aware of). Due to the work of Dante, this opposite place has come to be popularly known as "hell", so this is the way we describe it. But the Bible uses a better description, and I think that is "destruction" - as in some people are raised for "glory" (eternal life) while others are raised for "destruction" (eternal death). Some examples of this definition: "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. ~ Matthew 7:13 "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" ~ Romans 9:22 "Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things." ~ Phillipians 3:19 "They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" ~ 2 Thessalonians 1:9 "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly" ~ 2 Peter 3:7 It appears obvious to me that "destruction" is what all the writers intended, particularly 2 Thessalonians (they will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction) - the Greek here in this veres is particularly telling (as opposed to some of the other passages). The big question in this section is "destruction" vs "punishment. At this point, I can hear the arguments against this being given towards this - ie, Jesus teaches the fires of hell. However, it is my contention that with the exception of one verse (that I am aware of), all the passages that refer to burning and suffering in Hell are either 1- parables, 2- misunderstandings of the concepts, or 3- misinterpretations of words. There are three words in Greek that are translated as "Hell". These are Hades, (which translates "the grave", or "hole in the ground"), Gehenna (which is a literal place, a Valley just outside of Jerusalem where people burned their rubbish and sometimes their dead - you can still visit this place today - many times this passage is used to refer to a literal figurative burning, but writers have given in a symbolic eternal meaning), and tartaros (this is mentioned only once in the entire New Testament, and it is a place of torture, but only Satan and his demons are ever mentioned as going to this place. Then add to this Revelation 20 which refers to the "Lake of Fire", which clearly states: Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14). The passage specifically states "THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH". Not a "second place of eternal torture". Not a "second place of eternal separation from God". Simply "Second Death". *note how "hades" is also cast into the Lake of fire, and note that this time they have left the word untranslated in many translations - some translate it as "hell", but the majority leave it as untranslated* - most translations leave "hades" untranslated (though everywhere else it is translated as "hell"). Why would this be so? Does it make sense that at the End of Days, "Hell" will be cast into "Hell"? In the end, we have four words, each with different definitions but all translated by many as being the same thing and taken by many Christians to be the same thing Once you look at a copy of the Bible in Greek and see the different words that are used to describe what we today think of as "hell", it really is quite ludicrous to think that they are all referring to the same thing. gehenna is of particular interest, since this is where most references of buring come from. I would suggest you read my thread I started on this section of the forum ("salted with Fire") to get a better understanding of my understanding of this. To conclude though, we do have heaven, and we do have an opposite of heaven, though I think it is biblicallly incorrect to refer to this place as "hell". Heaven is eternal life. the opposite is eternal death - much like waht atheists think happen when they die (simply die and become wormfood). Many atheists actually take comfort in this belief and actually feel afraid of an "eternity", wehther of bliss or punishment. Yes, I know my view is probably not the most common view on this forum (going by what I have read). But it is the view I have gained from reading the Bible repeatedly. To get right down to it, why do we call the gift of eternal life a "gift", if everyone receives it anyway? I guess it comes down to whether you believe the soul is eternal or not, and though being the time of night it is, I can't find the exact passage, but there are allusions to our souls not being eternal. If you believe the soul is eternal, then everything I have said is meaningless. If you believe the soul is mortal and dies on the death of its host, then the gift of eternal life is exactly the gift that I believe God hs give to all believers All the best, ~ PA As I said, I'm sure I'm going to be bombarded with quotes showing how Hell is a place of torture and punishment (or separation and distress), but I did not want to make this post longer than it is, and so if people quote speific verses, go ahead, I've already mentioned how most of them are viewed (mistranslations or parables), and with the exception of the one or two passages (off the top of my head), most are simple misunderstandings. And for those that know me well (I don't know how well you know me, I don't really post a lot about myself on this forum), I don't like basing an entire doctrine on the basis of only one or two verses). Anyhow, I'll stop now for fear of boring people to death. All the best, and thanks for the question. It was very enlightening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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