A person before crucified in Christ

[Guest compasskid]

[AllforJesustheLord]

I will praise, and Worship the Almighty Eloheem(God), and the Lamb, for He is worthy to receive, all power, and glory, and might, and riches, and honor.

[Guest shadow2b]

-You got it! We are not under law but under grace! We fulfill the law by God's grace!

-The law of God is not evil, but holy, just, and good. However, it was never intended by God to be a rule of life for his people. Paul tells us plainly that those who desire to be teachers of the law, using it for that purpose, do not know what they are talking about (1 Timothy 1:7-11). Such doctrine is in direct opposition to

[AllforJesustheLord]

Do you notice Eph. 5:3-6, Rev. 21:7-8; and Rev. 22:14-15. Part of believing in Christ means we will have obedience to His commands other wise, we do not have faith working by love which avails much.

[Guest shiloh357]

You got it! We are not under law but under grace! We fulfill the law by God's grace! Isn't He so merciful!? His grace... we just depend on Him! Then BOOM - God's grace transforms us. This is our flesh dying. We become crucified with Christ. Then we also raise with Christ. This is stepping out in faith and living by His Spirit. This is God's grace. So we don't try to follow law, we just let our Father work in us through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Do not think that this is not for you. I hope this is not what you meant by saying this is for those under the law. This is for you and all God's people.

Welcome Compasskid!!! Good posts.

I would add that "under the law", and "under grace" are connected to "in Adam" and "in Christ", and "servants of sin" and "servants of righteousness."

To be "under the law, is just another way of saying, "unsaved." If I were to die without Christ, I would stand before God, "under the law." If I die in Christ, I stand before God "under grace."

So really "under the law," "in Adam, and "servant of sin," are saying the same thing, three different ways.

Likewise with "under grace," "in Christ," and "servant of righteousness."

[Ovedya]

Hate to be a stick in the mud here.....But Romans 7 does not describe a person who is not crucified with Christ. Paul wrote "I am crucified with Christ" four years after he wrote Romans 7, however he was still crucifed with Christ nevertheless.

Paul's writing of Romans 7 places himself in relation to the 4 laws described in vv. 7-25;8:2 - the law of sin and death in the believer's members (v. 23), the law of good in the believer's mind, which is the soul (v. 23), the law of God, and the Law of the Spirit of Life. Here there are three laws which are internal - sin, the soul, and the Spirit of Life - and one which is external, which is the Mosaic Law.

The law of sin in the believer's members is constantly at war with the law of good in the believer's mind. However, as Paul confesses in this chapter, the law of goodness in the believers' mind is absolutely incapable of overcoming the law of sin in the flesh. In other words, the human will to do good cannot overcome the natural law in the flesh to commit sinful acts. And even though the Law itself (That is, the Mosaic Law) is pure, good, and holy, obedience to that outward Law is even insufficient to overcome the law in our members. Praise the Lord this is not the end, however! There is a fourth law which is established in grace through the shed blood of Christ Jesus. That is the Law of the Spirit of life.

Chapter 8 vv. 3-13 gives us the key of overcoming the law of sin and death. By setting our mind on the Spirit (vv. 5-6), walking in the spirit (That is, the mingled human spirit), and putting to death the practices of the flesh by the Spirit (v. 13 cf. Col. 3:5) we can overcome the law of sin and death in our members. Galatians 5 also give us this key.

Everything in the universe has a law, and every law in the universe has a result, a consumation; call it a "fruit" if you like. The law of sin is to produce sins, and the consumation of the law of sin is death. The Law of Moses functions to reveal or to make known sin and sins in the believers, and the consumation is judgment. But the Law of the Spirit of Life is to produce life, peace, and the items pertaining to the Spirit of God (Love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, etc. - Gal. 5:22); and the consumation of the Law of the Spirit of Life is the New Jerusalem, which is the consumation of God's economy, which is in grace.

You are right that Romans 7 does not give us license to sin, and neither is it an excuse for sin. But the reality of our human life is that we have indwelling sin. This is why we have 1 John 2:1 as our comfort.

Much Grace,

~G

[AllforJesustheLord]

When a person starts to believe that is what many scriptures are referring to, and that is when someone will not be ashamed as the scriptures say, but we are all still commanded to serve God to have fruit in ourselves, and to lift up Christ so that He will, and can draw all to Himself, the other understanding we are getting is a deeper understanding it is going in the understanding of we must repent, otherwise those who do not continually build upon Christ, they will not recieve a reward, and they shall be saved yet so as through fire 1 Cor. 3:11-15, and that means they will have to go into the fire for a while then after their judgement they will be able to come out if they have believed in Jesus Christ, and then learn to obey The Father Jesus Christ, and will eventually be able to go into the city when they obey the Good News.

[Guest lordsportion]

It is a crying shame when anyone chooses any scripture to use as an opportunity for sin. But then again most religions were created by people who were allready inbedded in their particular sin and chose those scriptures that make what they are doing ok. The scriptures are there and they tell the whole story. There are very few ears who can hear it. this is by the LORDS design everything has to come to what he planned.

Now to the scripture you quoted. This sripture is not even for you to understand. It is addressed to the practicing jews of that era.

Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

even if you go into lavit. and learn the law you won't know the customs and quirks and mutations that were being practiced at the time, let alone what they were feeling and experiencing.

The world is full of thomases they have to see to believe. But now if you will Leave your comfort zone with the attitude to never return. The beautifull plaster job that covers the door that CHRIST is knocking on will fall away and you will then see clearly how to open that door and CHRIST will come in and sup with you. I am not talking about you imagining him coming in spirit into your mind either.

deut 32:9 for the LORDS portion is his people

[Guest Calamity]

When a person starts to believe that is what many scriptures are referring to, and that is when someone will not be ashamed as the scriptures say, but we are all still commanded to serve God to have fruit in ourselves, and to lift up Christ so that He will, and can draw all to Himself, the other understanding we are getting is a deeper understanding it is going in the understanding of we must repent, otherwise those who do not continually build upon Christ, they will not recieve a reward, and they shall be saved yet so as through fire 1 Cor. 3:11-15, and that means they will have to go into the fire for a while then after their judgement they will be able to come out if they have believed in Jesus Christ, and then learn to obey The Father Jesus Christ, and will eventually be able to go into the city when they obey the Good News.

Do you believe in Universal Reconciliation?

[AllforJesustheLord]

When a person starts to believe that is what many scriptures are referring to, and that is when someone will not be ashamed as the scriptures say, but we are all still commanded to serve God to have fruit in ourselves, and to lift up Christ so that He will, and can draw all to Himself, the other understanding we are getting is a deeper understanding it is going in the understanding of we must repent, otherwise those who do not continually build upon Christ, they will not recieve a reward, and they shall be saved yet so as through fire 1 Cor. 3:11-15, and that means they will have to go into the fire for a while then after their judgement they will be able to come out if they have believed in Jesus Christ, and then learn to obey The Father Jesus Christ, and will eventually be able to go into the city when they obey the Good News. 

Do you believe in Universal Reconciliation?

What is that?