Forgivness

[Jedi4Yahweh]

We were discussing my previous post

Please explain: the "if he repent"

Does god forgive all people regardless if they repent or not? Has god already forgiven all sinners regarless of their repentance or confession of sin.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Notice the words "if he repent".

If makes our forgiveness conditional based on repentance

Edited June 13, 2004 by Jedi4Yahweh

[BobTriez]

We were discussing my previous post

Please explain: the "if he repent"

Does god forgive all people regardless if they repent or not? Has god already forgiven all sinners regarless of their repentance or confession of sin.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Notice the words "if he repent".

If makes our forgiveness conditional based on repentance

I don't think you are reading this in it's full context here. "If" is not conditional in this sense and if you parallel Luke 17:3-4 to the other Gospels, you'll see what I mean.

For example, in Matthew 18:15-22

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

See in verse 15, it says "if" he repents, forgive him...follow through to verse 16 however and you will see "but" - here is what you do should he not repent. It's not "Carry on and don't forgive him", but rather a continuance in the forgiveness process. There are steps to be taken and if he repents, great, you've won your brother over....but if he doesn't repent, go get a witness and bring the matter up again.

In Him,

Bob

[Guest shiloh357]

Does god forgive all people regardless if they repent or not? Has god already forgiven all sinners regarless of their repentance or confession of sin.

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Yes, God has forgiven all sinners. Everyone was forgiven when Jesus died on the cross. The issue is not whether or not they are forgiven, but rather whether or not they recieve the forgiveness that is available to them.

One must repent in order to be able to recieve the forgiveness payed for on the cross.

God's justice was satisfied the day Christ died.

You are using a verse that deals with our repsonse to those who trespass against US. Then you are trying to apply it to God. That is not good hermeneutics. You need to pick a more appropriate passage.

God is not holding anything against anyone. Jesus has payed for sin. His blood satisfied the Father. If it is payed for, then you cannot go to Hell for your sins, but rather for rejecting the finished work of the cross.

Confession of sin is not for God's sake, but for yours. You do not get forgiven because you confess your sin. Confession of sin to God is for the sake of your concsience. The blood deals with your sins. Confession of sin prevents the enemy from bringing you under condemnation. When you confess your sins to the Lord, the blood of Jesus cleanses you of guilt and condemnation so that the enemy cannot torment you with your past.

Confession of sin has nothing to do with your rightstanding with God. I have heard people say that you cannot get into heaven with any confessed sins, and that is false. First of all, you cannot possibly remember EVERY sin you ever committed in your life, and secondly such a statement is based upon a faulty understanding of the purposes of confession of sin.

[Guest aka_mary]

Ditto Bob,

that is the teaching on the subject that I have recieved, and is my understanding.

Forgiving him released him to seek healing, and may one day lead to his repentance and salvation. It also released years of anger and bitterness within me. It softened my hardened heart. I was able to recieve healing at long last.

Blessings,

Karen

[rockswillcryout]

How do you forgive when you feel you have forgiven all parties but some one keeps opening up the can of worms but never seeks clearity so proper ammends can made between the hard feelings that were made?

Thanks

ray

I've been there. In fact, you can read a little about it here if you want:

Forgiveness

So someone is holding a grudge against you based on information from other people - you are working through forgiving them even though someone in your life keeps bringing it up. Am I understanding that right?

So your problem is that you'd like to forget as well as forgive, but someone keeps discussing it with you, so the forgetting part is also becoming difficult.

I hope I have this right... it's important because of how I want to break down the problem.

1.) Someone is holding a grudge against you. Do you know why? If it's something you did to hurt someone, have you asked for forgiveness? If it's not something you did and didn't need to ask forgiveness, have you explained that to the person who was hurt? Either way... you said you had forgiven the person who is still holding the grudge. What you've done here is the Jesus things to do.

2.) Someone continues to bring up the issue to clarify some things. Is this because they are still hurt? If so, and you have asked for forgiveness, that hurt is theirs to deal with. There isn't much you can do about that... the best thing you can do for them is be as supportive and kind as possible.

3.) You are struggling with forgiving this person who continues to "open this can of worms". That's understandable. Perhaps the best way to look at this problem is to solve it from the root. Maybe try to find out why this person still brings it up. If it's because they are still hurt, ask for forgiveness again, tell them how truly sorry are and that you want to do whatever you can to make this better between the two of you. If it's not because they are still hurt, but just want to be malicious, them take them aside sometime and explain that you have asked for forgiveness, they accepted your forgiveness, end of story. Hopefully that will at least stop these outer actions from stopping what you want to happen inside of you.

All in all, you can only deal with what you can control. You may try the things I've suggested, but bottom line is, you can't control what others think or do. You can only do what you know is right. Forgiveness based on what others do that isn't your fault is extremely difficult, and there is probably a part of you who wants to control it. But you can only control your own thoughts and actions. Once you've learned that, perhaps this forgiveness you are seeking will come a little easier.

God bless.

[seekandyouwillfind]

i think we have to forgive even though we dont "feel" like it......

that would be the "Christian thing" to do........

i know i have had to do my fair share of that............