Suffer Little Children

[ollkiller]

I have to head out for a bit so i'll deal with the abiogenesis a bit later if that's okay.

As for your question to jukia about design. I see it as one of two things. One, It's designed by a creator hence, hey we're alive good design. Two, many universes exist and ours is one of billions that exist so in one the constants we see needed for life exist in one (maybe more) of these universes. Who's right, you decide.

Seems one takes a leap of faith and one does not...

Your first idea...

We are here, that we know.

The universe has a begining, that we pretty much know.

Agreed.

Things look designed, that we know.

In anything but when dealing with the topic at hand if we knew something had a beginning and that it had the appearance of being designed we would without question assume that it had a creator/designer.

Things may looked designed but it would be an imperfect design. Why do we have a blind spot in our eye. I don't logically assume a creator was at work. I don't know how the universe started. If you invoke a creator then who created the creator etc.

Your second idea...

If these other universes exist, there's no way for us to detect them.

The idea that they exist is not a testable idea.

The idea of other universes exist, is at best metaphysics, which is a matter of faith.

In branches of mathematics extra dimensions seem to logically exist. In the future who knows what we can detect. For the moment you are right.

So, I would ask you on the surface knowing for sure what we know, which seems to be the most logical explanation?

At the moment i'm interested in the theory where two other universes collided and formed our universe. That invokes more universes and we're still left with the what created them question. I don't see either as the most logical because i haven't a clue how the universe started.

[ollkiller]

to have the "fact" of evolution you have to have also the "fact" of abiogenesis?

no

care to elaborate a bit more?

I don't have to go out now so, my answer is no. Whether abiogenesis occured or not i believe we evolved. I was going to write a big spiel but that's it in a nutshell.

[Guest]

It seems to me that Infantile helplessness leaves the theory of evolution up the creek without a paddle. Which really, at the end of the day is the best place for it.

Nothing In Creation Supports This Unobservable, Unmeasurable And Unrepeatable Latter-Day Legacy Of The Ancient Idol Worshiper

Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth:

for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face:

but in the time of their trouble they will say,

Arise, and save us. Jeremiah 2:27

As The Earth Groans Under The Weight Of Man's Sin The Whole Weave Of Life Is Quickly Unraveling Before All Who Observe

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Romans 8:21-22

While This New/Old Evolution Speculation Only Serves To Fill Useless Books With Hopeless Words Of Doom And Death

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;

but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death;

but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:

for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:5-7

Attempting To Drone Out Reason And Truth With Hallucinations Of Dead Matter Willing Itself To Complexity

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet,

they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson,

they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

But The God Of Abraham, Isaac And Jacob Will Not Be Denied And His Truth Will Be Known

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool:

his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him:

thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him:

the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Daniel 7:9-10

Even As Little School Children Are Lied To And The Saints Are Martyred

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound,

the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24:9-12

So Dear One Flee Flee The Terrible Wrath To Come

Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him,

O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Luke 3:7

Trusting His Will Is Done

Praising God, and having favour with all the people.

And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47

We Believe

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

And Live

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18